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Subject: Re: [xacml] Minutes 7 March TC Meeting - action on ambiguity wrt set of returned Obligations, Advice

On 20/03/2013 23:51, William Parducci wrote:
[David Chadwick]
I think we need to take the discussion up one level initially,
and ask what does it mean for different policies to permit (or
deny) access providing its specific obligations are fulfilled,
regardless of any other policies decisions or obligations?

Surely this only has meaning if the combining rule says it does.
So if the combining rule is permit overrides, and one policy
grants access without any obligations, then all other policies
granting access with obligations are irrelevant.

[Steven Legg]
Or maybe the writer of the policy without obligations was supposed
to add those obligations but neglected to do so.

It is impossible to build a policy based system that tries to second
guess what policy the author meant to write, or should have written,
rather than what he actually wrote. So this is surely out of scope.

One of the motivations for me building the OAA was the realization
that the people creating access policies are not necessarily the
people who care about the obligations,

then you are talking about a different type of system to the one I was
talking about. Yours appears to be a dual system, an access control
system and an obligation enforcement system. Whilst the latter is based
on the results of the former it is essentially independent from it.

From the rest of this message, we seem to be moving into the topic of usage control rather than simple (?) access control.



 especially in an environment where delegation is in use. For example,
auditors care about obligations for auditing and logging, but
project leaders setting access controls for their project's
resources are far removed from those cares. Enabling the decoupling
of obligation processing from decision processing using the OAA
means that the auditors can determine when the obligations they
care about are returned without having to rely on delegates to
know, or do, anything about those obligations.

Agreed. This also makes management of the Obligations definitions,
etc. much more practical.

[David Chadwick]
Each policy is not working in isolation (if it were there would
not be an issue) but one might consider that all policies are
competing with each other for their decision to be the most
important one.

[Steven Legg]
Or cooperating. What you're talking about is obligations that
depend not only on what access is granted/denied, but also on how
that access is granted/denied, i.e., the reason for the decision.
Since obligations can be about anything, we are going to find that
some only depend on the "what" and some depend on the "what" and
the "how", though the use cases I've encountered so far only depend
on the "what". Fortunately, I can handle both with the OAA.

I believe that using Obligations for QoS would involve the "how" (or
the "who" to be more precise), as would anything that generally
involved "parameterized decisions". For example, Subject requests
access to (abstract) Resource and Permit is granted with an
Obligation that references explicit instance of Resource, where
Obligation is based upon Subject (role, group) and/or Context
attributes (date, load, availability, etc.)


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