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Subject: RE: [xcbf] X9.84 Revision
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bancroft Scott [mailto:baos@oss.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 23:11
> To: Phil Griffin
> Cc: xcbf
> Subject: Re: [xcbf] X9.84 Revision
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Phil Griffin wrote:
>
> > So Ed and Bancroft, do you think that the XCBF
> > group should move on to the revised X9.84 ASN.1
> > as its schema?
>
> Yes, please, this is definitely better than what was there before.
> Let's move on.
I agree that we should move on.
Alessandro
>
> Bancroft
>
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > Bancroft Scott wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Phil Griffin wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Bancroft,
> > >>
> > >>Appreciate the help. I've been solely focused on the
> > >>design of the X9.84 revision that I've neglected to
> > >>update the schema modules. Best to wait on checking
> > >>the CMS module until I update it to conform with the
> > >>latest X9.73/IETF work.
> > >>
> > >>But here's the base X9.84 code with supporting stubs
> > >>and OID module that compiles using your ASN.1 schema
> > >>checker with no errors.
> > >>
> > >>Please verify that my results can be duplicated and
> > >>post your results to this list.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yes, it compiles cleanly, with the exception of the following two
> > > informatory (not error!) messages:
> > >
> > > OSS ASN.1 Compiler Version 5.4
> > > Copyright (C) OSS Nokalva, Inc. 1989-2002. All rights
> reserved.
> > >
> > > "test94.asn", line 603 (X9-84-Identifiers): C0381I:
> The ObjectSet
> > > 'SHA-Algorithms' is not referenced in a table
> constraint, and is not
> > > referenced by any Object or ObjectSet, or is
> referenced by an Object or
> > > ObjectSet which is not referenced in a table constraint.
> > >
> > > "test94.asn", line 659 (X9-84-Identifiers): C0381I:
> The ObjectSet
> > > 'EllipiticCurves' is not referenced in a table
> constraint, and is not
> > > referenced by any Object or ObjectSet, or is
> referenced by an Object or
> > > ObjectSet which is not referenced in a table constraint.
> > >
> > > C0043I: 0 error messages issued, 2 warning or
> informatory messages issued.
> > >
> > > In the finished module I suspect you will want to
> reference these objects.
> > >
> > > Also, there are a bunch of problems having to do with the
> XML value that
> > > you provided in the document. Let me know if you want me
> to determine
> > > what all the problems are. Some that I have identified
> so far are:
> > >
> > > 1:
> > > <encryptedContentInfo>
> > > </encryptedData>
> > >
> > > should be:
> > > </encryptedContentInfo>
> > > </encryptedData>
> > >
> > > 2:
> > > <BiometricSyntaxSets>
> > > <BiometricSyntax>
> > > <privacyAndIntegrityObjects>
> > >
> > > should be:
> > >
> > > <BiometricSyntaxSets>
> > > <privacyAndIntegrityObjects>
> > >
> > > 3:
> > > <recordType> 3 </recordType>
> > >
> > > should be:
> > >
> > > <recordType> <id> 3 </id> </recordType>
> > >
> > > 4:
> > > <validityPeriod> 2002.10.3 </validityPeriod>
> > >
> > > should be either:
> > >
> > > <validityPeriod> <notBefore> 2002.10.3
> </notBefore> </validityPeriod>
> > > or:
> > > <validityPeriod> <notAfter> 2002.10.3
> </notAfter> </validityPeriod>
> > >
> > > And so on ....
> > >
> > > Perhaps it is best to wait until the schema is solid and
> then we play with
> > > the instance document. Let me know your preference.
> > >
> > > Bancroft
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>And please vote on accepting this base module if you
> > >>then find this base module acceptable.
> > >>
> > >>Phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Bancroft Scott wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Phil Griffin wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Bancroft Scott wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Phil Griffin wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Bancroft,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>I have not finished writing these yet. But the most
> > >>>>>>current OID module is in the XCBF document in the
> > >>>>>>private area of the XCBF site. It is almost
> > >>>>>>certainly complete.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>No, it has at least one syntax error (missing ::=). It
> would be good if
> > >>>>>the modules were syntax checked using tools such as
> the free syntax
> > >>>>>checker from OSS or France Telecom.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>At which line number(s)?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>EllipiticCurves ALGORITHM { ... }
> > >>>
> > >>>However, I don't know if that is the only problem. I
> recommend that you
> > >>>use a syntax checker to verify its correctness instead
> of trying to do it
> > >>>by eye. Even with languages such as C that I have been
> using for over two
> > >>>decades I can never be sure that I've caught all syntax
> errors when I rely
> > >>>my eyes. ASN.1 is no different.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>The CMS module is in a bit of
> > >>>>>>flux if you're using sophisticated tools. I've
> > >>>>>>hand coded this stuff twice before and did again
> > >>>>>>for my XCBF tools - I find that the encoding is
> > >>>>>>not too complex and it is the cryptographic
> > >>>>>>processing and key management that are most
> > >>>>>>important.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>It is good that it can be hand-coded, but it would be
> great if the syntax
> > >>>>>were clean enough so that it can be verified by machine.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>Well it certainly must be before it is finished.
> > >>>>But you know, in all fairness, I AM working on
> > >>>>this without much if any assistance.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>I'm trying to help ....
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>Completion of the CMS module has been awaiting two
> > >>>>>>events that I thought it best we coordinate with.
> > >>>>>>One is the latest revision of the IETF SMIME RFC,
> > >>>>>>and the other is the reballoting version of X9.73.
> > >>>>>>It is desirable, long term, for these two standards
> > >>>>>>and XCBF to all use the same identifier and type
> > >>>>>>names for common types such as SignedData.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>SMIME is nearly through their review process. X9.73
> > >>>>>>was changed to its final version last week in Redondo
> > >>>>>>Beach. Over the next week or so, I'll try to complete
> > >>>>>>the revision of our XCBF module and incorporate this
> > >>>>>>into the XCBF document.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>So, are you voting to move ahead with the new X9.84?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>I leave that to Alessandro to make that decision for OSS.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>Technically, my understanding is that each TC member
> > >>>>has one vote, and "company" has no meaning. Not sure
> > >>>>that I really believe this, but that is what I've
> > >>>>been lead to believe are the rules.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>From the summary of the corrections to X9.84 it is a
> definite improvement
> > >>>on the first version, but I prefer to have a schema that
> I know is in
> > >>>order before I accept it.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>However, the ASN.1 spec that you have provided needs
> more work. I have
> > >>>>>been struggling to get it to cleanly compile, cutting
> here, pasting there.
> > >>>>>A real hassle. I've given up until we have something
> more solid.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>Then you'll just have to be patient and wait for
> > >>>>me to complete the work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>No problem. I was reacting to John's request.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>BTW, the XER encoding that you have at the bottom of
> x984.htm is invalid.
> > >>>>>If you cut the encoding and paste it to a file named,
> say, x984.xml, then
> > >>>>>use a basic XML syntax checker such as Internet
> Explorer to open the file
> > >>>>>you will see that it contains syntax errors.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>You will recall that I stated clearly that it
> > >>>>was WIP and had not been checked using my
> > >>>>product.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>Okay.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>I have had no intention of publishing every single
> > >>>>>>type needed to compile the XCBF ASN.1. The likes of
> > >>>>>>DomainCertificate and Certificate and such are not
> > >>>>>>really ours to control.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>I am not suggesting that you publish these. However,
> if you reference the
> > >>>>>types then it would help much if you were to precisely
> identify where the
> > >>>>>types are defined so as to minimize the effort that
> everyone has to make
> > >>>>>to try and get a complete set of definitions. A set
> of URLs pointing to
> > >>>>>the resources that define all directly and indirectly
> imported types would
> > >>>>>be great.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>If you know of such URLs please advise and I will
> > >>>>be happy to include them. X.509 is likely available
> > >>>>on Olivier's site. But I doubt that you will find
> > >>>>the others.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>No, I don't know what they are, or I would not be
> stumbling around looking
> > >>>for them. However, you are referencing these other
> ASN.1 modules, what is
> > >>>the URL that points to the ones that you are working with?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>But I'm open to considering
> > >>>>>>this, perhaps as annex materials. Note that I leave
> > >>>>>>comments in the IMPORTS statements to tell readers
> > >>>>>>where to find the appropriate modules.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>I saw those. They are no doubt very meaningful to
> you, but for me
> > >>>>>they just tell me what to enter in google to start my
> hunt. URLs
> > >>>>>of some sort would be much better.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>Please then DO suggest URLs or alternate text. Any
> > >>>>and all help much appreciated.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>See above.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>For your compiler, I would suggest that you test by
> > >>>>>>stubbing out missing types, using the likes of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Certificate ::= SEQUENCE {}
> > >>>>>> DomainCertificate ::= SEQUENCE {}
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>If only it were that simple.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Where is CBEFF-Formats defined? I see that it is an
> information object
> > >>>>>set of class "BIOMETRIC", but this class is locally
> defined. Does the
> > >>>>>module that defines CBEFF-Formats (i.e.,
> X9-84-Identifiers) import
> > >>>>>BIOMETRIC from this module (X9-84-Biometrics), or does
> it redefine this
> > >>>>>class?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>CBEFF-Formats is defined in the XCBF document at
> > >>>>lines 475 and 607. Once in the text and again in
> > >>>>the schema module.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>OKAY! Now I see what I was doing wrong. I was grabbing
> the modules that
> > >>>you have on the XCBF site at:
> > >>>
> > >>> XCBF ASN.1 Schema for XML Markup March 31, 2002
> > >>> (http://oasis-open.org/committees/xcbf/docs/schema.zip)
> > >>>
> > >>>The modules defined here are outdated.
> > >>>
> > >>>I should have been working with the document, "XCBF XML
> Common Biometric
> > >>>Format June 13 2002.doc" that you mailed to us in June.
> > >>>
> > >>>I'll take another stab tomorrow using the modules from
> this document.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>It is hard to tell if x984.htm is syntactically
> correct without a
> > >>>>>complete ASN.1 schema.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>Hah! If you look at it closely you will see that it
> > >>>>contains placeholde text where actual values should
> > >>>>be present. And as I said, it is not complete.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>Yes, I did notice that. I took it into consideration.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>My recollection was that Alessandro agreed to provide
> > >>>>encoded examples. I am working these out on my website
> > >>>>for the purpose of providing general information. I
> > >>>>will of course try to integrate this effort into the
> > >>>>XCBF if examples are not forthcoming from other sources.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Hope that helps.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>Yup. I suspect that most of the problems will disappear
> once I try using
> > >>>the right set of modules.
> > >>>
> > >>>Do let me know if you prefer for me to hold off on
> looking at this until
> > >>>you are finished. I'm more than willing to do what I
> can to help in those
> > >>>area where I have expertise.
> > >>>
> > >>>Bancroft
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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