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Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04 (unofficial) .txt uploaded

I neglected the best resource of all - Robin Cover's page on Topic Maps:


Robin Cover's xml.coverpages.org (hosted by Oasis - Robin is an Oasis staff member) is probably the closest thing to an up-to-date encyclopedia of XML and related technologies. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Wachob, Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:30 AM
To: 'ajay.madhok@amsoft.net'; drummond.reed@cordance.net; Wachob, Gabe;
marc.lemaitre@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04
(unofficial) .txt uploaded

	I think I get the general gist of the problem area you are discussing. I look forward to seeing your writeup for the official call (though I will not be on that call).

	Towards that end, I think its important to understand that in RDF, "links" are not a distinct concept from any other type of assertion. RDF (Resource Description Framework) allows for arbitrary assertions about URI-identifiable resources. One type of assertion is that one resource is "linked" to another (either unidirectionally or bidirectionally, depending on context). Thus, "querying" for *link* data is no different than querying for other data. And, the act of "following links" is a just a special case of making inferences about RDF assertions, which is the *core* function of the CWM (Closed World Machine). 

	I'd also point out that Topic Maps take a similar, though more structured, approach to expressing relationships between resources. Topic Maps are less granular, and have a different "sweet spot" (taxonomies, multi-role associations) than RDF. Topic Maps have a concept of "Associations" which have different roles - each role played by a different resource. Thus, the concept of a "relationship" is more nuanced (and less granular) in Topic Maps. I think its safe to say that the universe of concepts and relationships that can be represented with Topic Maps is basically the same as that with RDF - they just express these relationships in different ways. Also, several technologies built on topic maps, including especially Topic Maps querying and constraint languages are under development right now, and are fairly far along. Several applications of Topic Maps are being standardized in OASIS: 

	For more general info on Topic Maps, see:

	I'm not pushing Topic Maps over RDF, just suggesting that the TC consider all options before making a decision. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Ajay Madhok [mailto:ajay.madhok@amsoft.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:16 PM
To: drummond.reed@cordance.net; 'Wachob, Gabe';
marc.lemaitre@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04
(unofficial).txt uploaded

Hi Gabe,

The problem that I proposed that the DataWeb framework should address is the
ability to query data, its linked attributes and relationships with other
identities that is marked up using XDI and linked using our link contracts.
the idea is that the results of the query need to be qualitatively and
quantitatively better and structured compared to a Google Search using
keywords across the logical, horizontal layer that the content web creates.

While explaining the problem, I had mentioned that SQL like query languages
work in the database world, and XML QL , XQL, RQL, OQL, etc. have been
proposed in the metadata world but all of them require that the person
making the queries understands the semantic, procedural and
schematic/physical structures of the metadata repository (just like SQL
queries requires the understanding of fields, tables, containers, etc and
features, properties of the queried data sources).

In the same context, I had mentioned that while CWM (Common Warehouse Model)
provides interoperability between different implementations of data
warehouses, it does not support a Query framework. In fact, the new
proposals in the RDF world such as Quilt and Metalog do not lend themselves
for use in the Enterprise World. In this RDF context, Dave McAlpin mentioned
the Closed Working Machine and drew parallels with XSLT.

So the proposal is to think about is the need in our DataWeb, which
abstracts the underlying data sources, for some higher level query
constructs to help users derive information and knowledge from the linked
data and metadata without having any semantic, procedural or structural
knowledge of the data sources. To be specific, we leave the data objects to
be managed and queried by the Data Source frameworks, the information about
the data objects (attributes and meta data) to be managed and queried by
metadata query languages such as XQL, RQL but we need to worry about how
Knowledge about the data objects (relationships) is managed, mediated
(governed) and queried in the DataWeb with the same ease and breadth as our
other constructs.

I hope this clarifies the issue/proposal. I will also be writing this up
before the official call but would like to get your feedback at this stage
if that is possible.



-----Original Message-----
From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:06 AM
To: 'Wachob, Gabe'; marc.lemaitre@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04
(unofficial).txt uploaded

The reference is supposed to be the Closed World Machine (RDF context) but
one person on the call asked if this was the same thing as the Common
Warehouse Model.

Marc, we should update the minutes to reflect that the former reference is
the correct one. Bill Barnhill sent a link to the Closed World Machine page
to the list.


-----Original Message-----
From: Wachob, Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:45 PM
To: 'marc.lemaitre@cordance.net'; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04
(unofficial).txt uploaded

There's a reference in the minutes to the "Common Warehouse Model", but then
links to the RDF-related "Closed World Machine" (its not a specification or
architecture, but rather an implementation of a forward-chaining inference
engine for RDF).

Which is intended? Its not clear to me from an observer's point of view.

I have certainly played with the "Closed World Machine" a good amount and
understand what it does and doesn't do.

I have never dealt with the "Common Warehouse Model", however. ;-)



-----Original Message-----
From: marc.lemaitre@cordance.net [mailto:marc.lemaitre@cordance.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:56 PM
To: xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xdi] Groups - MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04
(unofficial).txt uploaded

The document MINUTES OF XDI TC meeting 3-17-04 (unofficial).txt has been
submitted by Marc Le Maitre (marc.lemaitre@cordance.net) to the OASIS XRI
Data Interchange (XDI) TC document repository.

Document Description:
Here are the minutes of the 3-17-04 XDI TC telephone conference call.

This meeting was unofficial, attendance did not account towards TC
membership and accordingly no official business (decisions or votes) was
conducted on the call

Download Document:

View Document Details:

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