RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded

["Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@cordance.net>]

Gabe,

Whoa! Is RelaxNG *really* that compact? Man, I thought the XSD was short
already, but this is absolutely miniscule.

Are you using RelaxNG in place of XSD or as a complement to it? Do you think
the XDI TC should specify the XDI metaschema in RelaxNG instead of XSD, or
in both, or what?

Thanks - this is fantastic info.

=Drummond 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wachob, Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:07 PM
To: drummond.reed@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded

Sorry for the bad syntax and aborted sentence ending in "broader". I was so
excited to see how clearly Drummond's proposed syntax become in RelaxNG that
I hit send before I had actually finished it. 

The sentence I didn't finish was going to talk about how RelaxNG is part of
a framework called DSDL that includes the ability to validate documents in a
number of ways. For XDI, I suspect anything beyond RelaxNG is overkill
(perhaps the use of Schematron would be beneficial too, however -
http://www.schematron.com). More info on DSDL can be found at
http://www.dsdl.org

 	-Gabe

__________________________________________________ 
gwachob@visa.com
Chief Systems Architect
Technology Strategies and Standards
Visa International 
Phone: +1.650.432.3696   Fax: +1.650.554.6817


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wachob, Gabe 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:56 PM
> To: drummond.reed@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
> 
> 
> Just FYI-
> 	I find using XML Schema to be real pain since it 
> basically requires you to use a tool (e.g. XMLSpy) to get a 
> good grasp on what the document the XML Schema is defining. 
> 	I'm finding myself using RelaxNG schema Compact Syntax 
> to be MUCH more expressive, easier to create (no tool needed) 
> and a TON easier to discuss. RelaxNG is more pattern based, 
> rather than object-based and seems to be more natural to use 
> when discussing document structure, as we are doing here. 
> RelaxNG has a XML syntax (just as W3C XML Schema has an XML 
> syntax), but RelaxNG also has a really straightforward, 
> human-read/writeable compact syntax that I use frequently. 
> The XML and compact syntaxes are isomorphic and there are a 
> number of tools to convert. 
> 
> http://relaxng.org
> 
> http://relaxng.org/compact-tutorial-20030326.html
> 
> 	One thing I had to get in my head, though, is that 
> RelaxNG defines the correct structure of a document, like a 
> DTD, rather than the elements in a namespace, like XML 
> Schema. That means, for example, that RelaxNG schema define a 
> "root" element for XML documents. XML Schema just define a 
> bunch of elements, any of which could be the root of a 
> document. When you validate a document against RelaxNG, you 
> are taking the outer XML element and matching it with the 
> RelaxNG's "start" production. When you validate a document 
> against XML Schema, you are taking the outer element and 
> trying to find it in the namespace defined by the XML Schema 
> documents you happen to have. A different mentality. Also, 
> RelaxNG is part of the DSDL framework which allows for a broader 
> 
> 	You can almost always mechanically convert a RelaxNG 
> schema into a WXS schema (but not the other way around). A 
> bunch of other nice things too with RelaxNG. 
> 
> 	Here's Drummond's latest XSD in relaxng. Note how much 
> simpler it is ;-)
> 
> =====
> 
> default namespace="http://xdi.oasis-open.org";
> start=Resource
> 
> anyelement = (element * { (attribute * {text} | text | 
> anyelement) * })
> 
> RefContent= element note {xsd:string} *,
> 	element xri {xsd:string} +,
> 	element data { anyelement *} ?, 
> 	Resource *,
> 	Link *, 
> 	anyelement *
> 
> Resource = element resource {RefContent}
> Link = element link {RefContent}
> 
> ======
> 
> 	*AND* (the final kicker), RelaxNG was originally 
> developed in OASIS ;-)
> 
>  
> __________________________________________________ 
> gwachob@visa.com
> Chief Systems Architect
> Technology Strategies and Standards
> Visa International 
> Phone: +1.650.432.3696   Fax: +1.650.554.6817
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: drummond.reed@cordance.net [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:13 PM
> > To: xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
> > 
> > 
> > The document draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd has been submitted 
> > by Drummond Reed (drummond.reed@cordance.net) to the OASIS 
> > XRI Data Interchange (XDI) TC document repository.
> > 
> > Document Description:
> > v2 of the proposed XDI metaschema (the only change being a 
> > Notes element for adding annotations to an XDI document)
> > 
> > Download Document:  
> > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xdi/download.php/
> > 7277/draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd
> > 
> > View Document Details:
> > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xdi/document.php?
> > document_id=7277
> > 
> > 
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> > 
>