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Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
I'd suggest that you at least *work* with RelaxNG and decide "at the last minute" whether or not to produce WXS.
What I've seen some W3C documents do is make english description of the document structure and constraints normative and then publish WXS and RelaxNG to "back up" the english description.
I'm guessing its probably not a big deal what you do at the end, since your schema is so simple. But I really do suggest that when you are discussing it, you use RelaxNG. Conversion to WXS is very straightforward. There are some things you can do in RelaxNG (some patterns you can express in RelaxNG are not expressable in WXS) that cannot be "downcast" into WXS, but either you won't run across them, or they can be spoken to in the body of the specification.
-Gabe
__________________________________________________
gwachob@visa.com
Chief Systems Architect
Technology Strategies and Standards
Visa International
Phone: +1.650.432.3696 Fax: +1.650.554.6817
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:55 PM
> To: Wachob, Gabe; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
>
>
> Gabe,
>
> Whoa! Is RelaxNG *really* that compact? Man, I thought the
> XSD was short
> already, but this is absolutely miniscule.
>
> Are you using RelaxNG in place of XSD or as a complement to
> it? Do you think
> the XDI TC should specify the XDI metaschema in RelaxNG
> instead of XSD, or
> in both, or what?
>
> Thanks - this is fantastic info.
>
> =Drummond
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wachob, Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:07 PM
> To: drummond.reed@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
>
> Sorry for the bad syntax and aborted sentence ending in
> "broader". I was so
> excited to see how clearly Drummond's proposed syntax become
> in RelaxNG that
> I hit send before I had actually finished it.
>
> The sentence I didn't finish was going to talk about how
> RelaxNG is part of
> a framework called DSDL that includes the ability to validate
> documents in a
> number of ways. For XDI, I suspect anything beyond RelaxNG is overkill
> (perhaps the use of Schematron would be beneficial too, however -
> http://www.schematron.com). More info on DSDL can be found at
> http://www.dsdl.org
>
> -Gabe
>
> __________________________________________________
> gwachob@visa.com
> Chief Systems Architect
> Technology Strategies and Standards
> Visa International
> Phone: +1.650.432.3696 Fax: +1.650.554.6817
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wachob, Gabe
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:56 PM
> > To: drummond.reed@cordance.net; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
> >
> >
> > Just FYI-
> > I find using XML Schema to be real pain since it
> > basically requires you to use a tool (e.g. XMLSpy) to get a
> > good grasp on what the document the XML Schema is defining.
> > I'm finding myself using RelaxNG schema Compact Syntax
> > to be MUCH more expressive, easier to create (no tool needed)
> > and a TON easier to discuss. RelaxNG is more pattern based,
> > rather than object-based and seems to be more natural to use
> > when discussing document structure, as we are doing here.
> > RelaxNG has a XML syntax (just as W3C XML Schema has an XML
> > syntax), but RelaxNG also has a really straightforward,
> > human-read/writeable compact syntax that I use frequently.
> > The XML and compact syntaxes are isomorphic and there are a
> > number of tools to convert.
> >
> > http://relaxng.org
> >
> > http://relaxng.org/compact-tutorial-20030326.html
> >
> > One thing I had to get in my head, though, is that
> > RelaxNG defines the correct structure of a document, like a
> > DTD, rather than the elements in a namespace, like XML
> > Schema. That means, for example, that RelaxNG schema define a
> > "root" element for XML documents. XML Schema just define a
> > bunch of elements, any of which could be the root of a
> > document. When you validate a document against RelaxNG, you
> > are taking the outer XML element and matching it with the
> > RelaxNG's "start" production. When you validate a document
> > against XML Schema, you are taking the outer element and
> > trying to find it in the namespace defined by the XML Schema
> > documents you happen to have. A different mentality. Also,
> > RelaxNG is part of the DSDL framework which allows for a broader
> >
> > You can almost always mechanically convert a RelaxNG
> > schema into a WXS schema (but not the other way around). A
> > bunch of other nice things too with RelaxNG.
> >
> > Here's Drummond's latest XSD in relaxng. Note how much
> > simpler it is ;-)
> >
> > =====
> >
> > default namespace="http://xdi.oasis-open.org";
> > start=Resource
> >
> > anyelement = (element * { (attribute * {text} | text |
> > anyelement) * })
> >
> > RefContent= element note {xsd:string} *,
> > element xri {xsd:string} +,
> > element data { anyelement *} ?,
> > Resource *,
> > Link *,
> > anyelement *
> >
> > Resource = element resource {RefContent}
> > Link = element link {RefContent}
> >
> > ======
> >
> > *AND* (the final kicker), RelaxNG was originally
> > developed in OASIS ;-)
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > gwachob@visa.com
> > Chief Systems Architect
> > Technology Strategies and Standards
> > Visa International
> > Phone: +1.650.432.3696 Fax: +1.650.554.6817
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: drummond.reed@cordance.net
> [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:13 PM
> > > To: xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: [xdi] Groups - draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd uploaded
> > >
> > >
> > > The document draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd has been submitted
> > > by Drummond Reed (drummond.reed@cordance.net) to the OASIS
> > > XRI Data Interchange (XDI) TC document repository.
> > >
> > > Document Description:
> > > v2 of the proposed XDI metaschema (the only change being a
> > > Notes element for adding annotations to an XDI document)
> > >
> > > Download Document:
> > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xdi/download.php/
> > > 7277/draft-xdi-metaschema-v2.xsd
> > >
> > > View Document Details:
> > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xdi/document.php?
> > > document_id=7277
> > >
> > >
> > > PLEASE NOTE: If the above links do not work for you, your
> > > email application
> > > may be breaking the link into two pieces. You may be able to
> > > copy and paste
> > > the entire link address into the address field of your
> web browser.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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