Andy,
Good points about the trigger mechanism,
however, those notifications could still be part of the XDI protocol, and could
still be bound to other transport protocols typically used for notifications. That’s
all I meant.
I look forward to the chance to discuss
this more at Internet Identity Workshop (for anyone who is considering going,
Andy and I and several other XDI TC members plan to be there, so we’d love to
have you – see http://www.windley.com/events/iiw2007a/announcement
for more info).
=Drummond
From:
andy.dale@ootao.com [mailto:andy.dale@ootao.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:55
AM
To: Drummond Reed
Cc: 'Giovanni Bartolomeo';
steven.churchill@ootao.com; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xdi] notifications
for XDI? (was Re: prototype and consequent feedback on XDI primitive)
I don't have as good an excuse for delaying my response
as Drummond, sorry :-)
AND...
I disagree with him... it gets worse and worse :-(
I
don't think we need to specify a notify protocol.
I
think we DO need to specify a robust 'trigger' mechanism (which we have done in
our implementation). These triggers can trigger the execution of any custom
code, on either get or set traversals. They can be triggered at any specific
point in the get or the set operations (before set, after set, etc...). To build
a plugin that implements the notification protocol you describe is then
trivial, as is building any other protocol or domain specific functionality. We
are building several 'standard' plugins that will be part of every server
distribution, a notification one could be added to the set.
With
such a generic solution I don't see why the XDI TC would want to take on the
additional work of tightly binding itself to any other specific spec or
protocol.
All
the best,
Andy
Dale
ooTao, Inc.
Phone: 877-213-7935
Fax: 877-213-7935
i-name: =Andy.Dale
http://xri.net/=andy.dale
***************************************************************************
If you don't have an i-name yet use this link to visit one of our partners and
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"Drummond Reed"
<drummond.reed@cordance.net>
04/29/2007 09:23 PM
|
To
|
"'Giovanni Bartolomeo'"
<giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it>, <xri@lists.oasis-open.org>,
<xdi@lists.oasis-open.org>
|
cc
|
<steven.churchill@ootao.com>,
<andy.dale@ootao.com>
|
Subject
|
RE: [xdi] notifications for XDI? (was Re:
prototype and consequent feedback on XDI primitive)
|
|
Giovanni,
I apologize for the long delay in replying – I was at the
OASIS Symposium the week before last and am still catching up on lists.
See [=Drummond] inline.
From: Giovanni
Bartolomeo [mailto:giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 9:26 AM
To: xri@lists.oasis-open.org; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: steven.churchill@ootao.com; andy.dale@ootao.com
Subject: [xdi] notifications for XDI? (was Re: prototype and
consequent feedback on XDI primitive)
Dear All,
reading Andy's reply I realized to haven't been so clear with my use case; I'm
sorry for this, I'll try again to better explain this idea.
The issue we're facing is that there should be some cases in which the terminal
or the device running the CLIENT side of the XDI framework might be needed of
be notified whenever certain data change. This is quite common in
telecommunications environments.
[=Drummond] Yes, I agree with this use case.
For example, OMA XDM (
http://www.openmobilealliance.org/release_program/docs/XDM/V1_0-20060612-A/OMA-TS-XDM_Core-V1_0-20060612-A.pdf
)
"defines the common protocol for access and manipulation of XML documents
by authorized principals. This specification reuses the IETF XML Configuration
Access Protocol (XCAP).
XCAP defines:
A convention for describing elements and attributes of an
XML document as a HTTP resource, i.e., accessible via an
HTTP URI
A technique for using HTTP GET, PUT and DELETE methods for
various document manipulation operations (e.g.,
retrieving/adding/deleting elements/attributes, etc.)
The concept and structure of an XCAP Application Usage by
which service or enabler specific documents can be
described
A default authorization policy for accessing and
manipulating documents"
sounds familiar? Basically XDM/XCAP is roughly similar to XDI/XRI, but with
many limitations
- it can handle just XML documents
- it doesn't define an abstract protocol and binding mechanisms
- it doesn't keep the concept of data link between documents
- ...
Though so "primitive" compared to XDI/XRI, it's the OMA standard to
be used in telco!!!
but the interesting thing is that:
"This specification also defines a technique by which changes to such XML
documents can be conveyed to an XCAP CLIENT. This reuses an IETF-defined SIP
event package by which an XDM Client subscribes to changes to all documents
that it owns."
this feature (subscription/notification) is instead missing in XDI! Why we
don't think at an extension of the current spec to support it?
Two issues to be discussed are:
- usefulness (what you think?)
[=Drummond] I have long felt that XDI notifications are very
useful; it has always my assumption we would specify them.
- feasibility and concrete bindings (do we need to use SIP as a concrete
binding for this purpose? Maybe we can rely on the RSS protocol? Etc.)
[=Drummond] This is what needs the most discussion. Both SIP
and RSS have something to offer.
(It is even trivial to say that in case of positive reactions we'll be more
than happy to take the task of writing a (more or less formal) document to
propose such an extension!)
[=Drummond] That would be most welcome. As the minutes of the
XRI/XDI TC meeting in San Diego indicated, we are about to formally update the
XDI TC charter. I’ll be sending more email about that this week. Once we’ve
done that and have the rest of the XRI 2.x Working Drafts ready, I’d really like
to move forward rapidly with drafting the XDI 1.0 specs.
[=Drummond] Are you thinking that this would need to be a
separate specification, or included under the XDI Protocols and Bindings
specification as listed on http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/CharterRevision02 ?
Your comments will be welcome!!! (unfortunately I'll be out of office next
week, so time of reaction will be not elevated; however, I've just given the
kick-off :-)
[=Drummond] And I will be out of the office most of this
coming week at the Higgins f2f in Austin, but I’ll be online there, and will be
sending out XRI/XDI TC messages in preparation for our regular telecon this
coming Thursday.
Best,
=Drummond