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*Subject*: **Re: [xdi] Proposal for separation of subject/predicate and parent-subject/child-subject semantics**

*From*:**Markus Sabadello <markus.sabadello@xdi.org>***To*: Giovanni Bartolomeo <giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it>*Date*: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:30:06 +0200

What I'm afraid of is that people will never understand resolution equivalence, and that it would be difficult to implement at the storage and messaging levels of an XDI stack.

Can't we just have logical equivalence without resolution equivalence?

On the logical level a high level application/reasoner/etc can infer lots of stuff based on some $is, $has, $is$a, etc rules we make up, but I'm really a bit scared of having to implement such extra XDI "magic" just for plain XDI storage and messaging..

Markus

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Giovanni Bartolomeo <giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it> wrote:

Dear Drummond, All,

thank you for this proposal - two main thoughts from my side:

1) it is FUNDAMENTAL that if +a/+b is resolvable then also +a+b MUST be, and viceversa. We used the symbol <==> to say this, +a/+b <==> +a+b.

Obviously the stored document can only contain one of the two, e.g. the document only contains +a/+b, but +a+b MUST be resolvable as well.

This is about the relationship between asserted and inferred statements which I illustrated in the second part of my email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xdi/201004/msg00004.html - we didn't discuss this yet because we ran out of time last week, but it would be good to address this in next phc.

2) About the following statements (in which the symbol <==> is used in a somehow different way than in point 1)note that the statements on the left side in their own give origin to metastatements like +a/$has/+, +a/$has/$, +a/$has/() which in turns are logically equivalent to +a+, +a$, +a() whose semantics is totally unknown to me.

+a/$has/+b <==> +a/+b

+a/+/+b <==> +a+b

+a/$/$b <==> +a$b

+a/=/=b <==> +a=b

+a/@/@b <==> +a@b

+a/*/*b <==> +a*b

+a/!/!b <==> +a!b

+a/()/(b) <==> +a(b)

Kind Regards,

Giovanni

Def. Quota "Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@xdi.org>:----------------------------------------------------------------

Per my action item from Thursday's telecon, following is more about my

analysis and proposal for solving the "$has semantics problem" once

and for all.

*** ANALYSIS ***

My first conclusion, on which I think we all agree, is that while +a+b

might imply +a/+b and vice versa, that does not mean that: a) they

have the same semantics, or b) that they identify the same XDI graph.

Indeed, since one is an XDI subject and the other adds an XDI

predicate, by definition they cannot identify the same XDI graph.

To illustrate in English, most English verbs can be made into nouns by

putting them in their infinitive form (“to be”, “to run”, “to shout”).

But “run” and “to run”, while clearly linked semantically, do not have

the same meaning. They cannot be interchanged with each other.

Thus my second conclusion is that none of the three XDI graph examples

we were discussing on our telecon two weeks ago were in fact

equivalent. They were each different XDI graphs that had similar but

not identical semantics.

My third conclusion is that this means that we do in fact need clearly

distinguished ways of semantically and syntactically of expressing

that an XDI subject (e.g., +a) : 1) has a child subject (e.g., +a+b),

and 2) has a predicate (e.g., +a/+b).

My fourth conclusion was that this is the problem we have been

struggling with for the last year: by using $has (with or without

variants like $has$a) to express both parent subject/child subject

relationships (+a+b) and subject/predicate relationships (+a/+b), we

have wrapped ourself in a classic Gordian knot.

*** PROPOSAL ***

Once the problem was framed this way, it became much easier (for me

anyway) to see that a clean solution would be to dedicate the $has

predicate to only one semantic – either the parent subject/child

subject relationship or the subject/predicate relationship. Of those

two options, I strongly prefer dedicating the $has verb to expressing

the subject/predicate relationship (+a/+b), since this is the simpler

and more intuitive to understand, and mirrors the semantics of the $a

predicate, which expresses predicate/object relationships.

If $has is dedicated to that expression, then we simply need a

different predicate (or set of predicates) to express parent

subject/child subject relationships.

For that, an obvious answer is to use XRI delimiters as predicates.

This is intuitive since it is syntactically required to have a

delimiter between XRI subsegments, and each of the six XRI delimiters

(not counting parentheses for cross-references) has its own

XRI-defined "semantics", e.g., * means reassignable identifier, !

means persistent identifiers, etc.

So to summarize using +a and +b notation:

+a/$has/+b <==> +a/+b

+a/+/+b <==> +a+b

+a/$/$b <==> +a$b

+a/=/=b <==> +a=b

+a/@/@b <==> +a@b

+a/*/*b <==> +a*b

+a/!/!b <==> +a!b

+a/()/(b) <==> +a(b)

Semantically, it would still be true that +a+b/$is$a/+b (and the

inverse that +b/$a/+a+b). And while +a+b would imply that +a/+b is

valid, and vice versa, the existence of one in an XDI graph would not

imply the existence of the other.

So, if =example wanted to do a query to determine if +a+b and +a/+b

both existed in an XDI graph, it would be:

=example

$get

/

+a

$has

+b

+

+b

I have been trying out this proposal in sample XDI documents for the

past week and it seems to work very well. Please consider and

experiment with it and post your thoughts. We'll put it on the agenda

for next week's telecon.

=Drummond

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**Follow-Ups**:**Re: [xdi] Proposal for separation of subject/predicate andparent-subject/child-subject semantics***From:*"Giovanni Bartolomeo" <giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it>

**References**:**Proposal for separation of subject/predicate and parent-subject/child-subject semantics***From:*Drummond Reed <drummond.reed@xdi.org>

**Re: [xdi] Proposal for separation of subject/predicate andparent-subject/child-subject semantics***From:*"Giovanni Bartolomeo" <giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it>

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