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Subject: Re: [xliff-inline] XLIFF Inline Markup Subcommittee Teleconference - Sep-11-2012 - Summary


Hi Yves and Christian,

Thank you very much.

Yes, I checked HTML5 categorisation before having the initial list. "section" was one example I borrowed name from it. What I have found here and there was all major types of mark-up language instances such as HTML, DITA and DocBook (Categories of Elements in DocBook) have their own categories.

I thought It would not be too realistic for XLIFF to follow all such categories. And the purpose of having "type" attribute in XLIFF wouldn't be exactly same as having "category" in each doctype's specification.

IMHO, "type" in XLIFF should be a useful hint to translators and to CATs. So, the question I had was, what can translators/CATs do according to the type value. I thought the tools (people) could apply different level of QA priority/task and different quality expectation depending whether the type of the in-line element is for formatting or for linking to external/internal resources.

Example cases)
  • fmt type was to target formatting elements. Missing or incorrect positions of these elements may not have large impact on overall quality.
  • quot (or 'island' in Oracle's terminology) type was to target elements with a floating text or a long book title that must be translated as a group.
  • link : Anchors. Usually its position and value are very critical
  • ...

jung

On 01/10/2012 13:49, Yves Savourel wrote:

Hi Christian,

 

Good pointers.

Looking at those, do you have a list of possible values that would complement what Jung came up with?

 

Cheers,

-yves

 

 

From: xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Lieske, Christian
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 5:58 AM
To: Jung Nicholas Ryoo; xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff-inline] XLIFF Inline Markup Subcommittee Teleconference - Sep-11-2012 - Summary

 

Hi,

 

This reminds me of categorizations that I have seen elsewhere …

 

1.       List we compiled for ITS 1.0 (see http://www.w3.org/International/its/requirements/Overview.html#mapping); example: elements associated with specific text styles

2.       Categories used in the Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DTIA; see http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/DITA1.2-spec.html); examples: basic, body, related links, typographic elements

3.       Categories used in HTML5 (see http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/single-page.html); examples: sections, grouping content, text-level semantics

 

I am always in favour of being knowledgable about what already exists.

 

Cheers,

Christian

 

From: xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Jung Nicholas Ryoo
Sent: Montag, 1. Oktober 2012 11:59
To: xliff-inline@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff-inline] XLIFF Inline Markup Subcommittee Teleconference - Sep-11-2012 - Summary

 

Big apology for being so late.

Here is my first draft. There are several ways of categorising tags, but I tried to reduce as much as possible to have only a list of items meaningful to translation. Examples include tags from HTML5, which is expected to be in more matured status when XLIFF 2.0 is released. I did not give much attention to the types in grey.

We cannot have a definite classification for all tags. <address> by its nature, is not a formatting tag for example, but practically acts as a non-critical formatting tag at rendering moment. "type" is more to give a hint to translators/translation tools than defining grouping.

Type

SubType

Description

Example

fmt


[Formatting] Majority of embedded elements would belong to here.
Generally loss of these in-line elements is not critical to translation. But some may be.

font, code, br, em, strong, small, big, i,b,u, dfn, samp, var, mark, span, ins, del, kbd, sub, sup, address, bdi, bdo, meter, br, center, strike, wbr

quot


In-line quotation. These should be translated as an independent group. Also a good hint to MT.

q, cite (title of a work)

link


Link (Anchor). Loss of tags is critical to the quality of translated material.

a, xlink, ulink

annot


Annotation. Providing additional information.

abbr, ruby, time, acronym

bidi


Bi-Di related

bdi, bdo

struct


List, Bullet point. Tables etc..

option, td, li, dt, dd, optgroup

section


Document Structure, Block

h1, h2, h3, div, footer, header, div, p, pre, blockquote

embed


Embedded objects

img, embed, video, object, audio, iframe

script


Dynamic scripts

script

form


Form elements

input, button

gen


Generic purpose or Uncategorized



Jung

On 11/09/2012 15:31, Yves Savourel wrote:

XLIFF Inline Markup Subcommittee Teleconference - Summary
 
Every second Tuesday of every month at 14:00 UTC 7:00am PT, 8:00am MT, 10:00am ET 3:00pm London, 4:00pm Berlin
 
Teleconference meeting place:
https://www1.gotomeeting.com/join/408998929
Meeting ID: 408-998-929
You can use the following US phone number, or the VOIP option provided by GoToMeeting:
Dial 630-869-1010
Access Code: 408-998-929
 
Present: Yves, Jungwoo, Fredrik, 
Regrets: Christian
 
 
Latest draft is here:
See http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/xliff/trunk/xliff-20/xliff-core.pdf
 
 
=== Implementing F2F main changes
 
-- composite values for the type attribute Something like this:
 
type ::= <category>['/'<subcategory>]
<subcategory> ::= <authority>':'<value>
 
Or two attributes:
 
Like type and subType (or custType, or xType, or extType), with same values.
 
Need to define the values for the main category.
 
F: single attribute feels best solution to me.
Y: tend to agree.
J: single was what we agree in F2F
 
J will try to come up with an initial list
Y, F to try to do the same.
 
 
 
=== Bi-directionality details
 
Done in schema, specifications and test implementation
(only dir in data is missing in test implementation).
 
Y: Nothing new. Will work on getting the missing dir in data
F: Had a quick look at current draft and it looked ok
 
 
 
=== Annotations representation
 
ACTION ITEM: yves to work on implementation.
-> in progress
 
ACTION ITEM: Yves to edit the draft to reflect the sm/em change
-> Done.
 
Also: <note> has an id now, so it can be used with comment annotation.
 
 
 
=== Elements and Attributes Names
 
Time to start choosing final names for the inline markup.
 
See spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Av8I1YVQlYmsdEwtZ0VEVmo5Y0ZLTndEcUlFMzZnZmc&output=html
 
Either enter suggestion in your column (add one if needed) (ask for the link to the editable table if you don't have it any more, or post an email with the suggestions)
 
ACTION ITEM: Yves to remind everyone.
 
 
 
=== Namespace?
 
We need to decide to which namespace the content markup should belong.
 
a- same as the core namespace
b- one separate namespace (but still belong to the core)
c- several separate namespaces (e.g. codes still belong to the core, but not annotations, etc.)
 
Y: prefer option a
F: like concept of separate ns in core, but see advantage of having it in the core ns.
Feel separate ns would make it easier for separate use. Using several namespaces for inline would not bring anything.
J: option a looks best 
 
 
=== Any other business
 
TMX has looked at our model a bit.
 
Y: max size feature?
F: working on it. It would add an additional attribute in inline markup, as separate module.
 
-end
 
 
 
 
 
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--
Jung Nicholas Ryoo | Principal Software Engineer
Phone: +35318031918 | | Fax: +35318031918 |
Oracle WPTG Infrastructure

ORACLE Ireland | Block P5, Eastpoint Business Park Dublin 3

Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment


--
Jung Nicholas Ryoo | Principal Software Engineer
Phone: +35318031918 | | Fax: +35318031918 |
Oracle WPTG Infrastructure

ORACLE Ireland | Block P5, Eastpoint Business Park Dublin 3

Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment


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