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Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
Hi all, another change according to the final discussion on explicitly using segment and ignorable:
{
"id": "u1",
"myNS:xattr": "extValue",
"segment": [{
"state": "translated",
"canResegment": false,
"source": [{
"id": "c1",
"standaloneCode": "[C1\/]"
}, " aaa ", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeStart": "[C2]"
}, "text", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeEnd": "[\/C2]"
}],
"target": [{
"id": "c1",
"standaloneCode": "[C1\/]"
}, " AAA ", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeStart": "[C2]"
}, "TEXT", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeEnd": "[\/C2]"
}],
"ignorable": [{
"source": [". "]
}]
}]
}
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan King
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 10:38 AM
To: 'Yves Savourel' <ysavourel@enlaso.com>; xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
Hi all,
Like David, I am also finding it hard to add a page to the wiki, so...looking at Yves' current example on the wiki and comparing that with the discussion we had today on the call about Patrik's object model diagram, I think that Yves' serialization is going in the right direction. However, I'd make some modifications to use the object names defined in the spec instead of "kind" and "data", for example:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<xliff xmlns="urn:oasis:names:tc:xliff:document:2.0" version="2.1" srcLang="en" trgLang="fr"> <file id="f1"> <unit id="u1" xmlns:my="myNS" my:xattr="extValue">
<originalData>
<data id="d1">[C1/]</data>
<data id="d2">[C2]</data>
<data id="d3">[/C2]</data>
</originalData>
<segment canResegment="no" state="translated">
<source><ph id="c1" dataRef="d1"/> aaa <pc id="c2" dataRefEnd="d3" dataRefStart="d2">text</pc></source>
<target><ph id="c1" dataRef="d1"/> AAA <pc id="c2" dataRefEnd="d3" dataRefStart="d2">TEXT</pc></target>
</segment>
<ignorable>
<source>. </source>
</ignorable>
</unit>
</file>
</xliff>
{
"id": "u1",
"myNS:xattr": "extValue",
"parts": [{
"seg": true,
"state": "translated",
"canResegment": false,
"source": [{
"id": "c1",
"standaloneCode": "[C1\/]"
}, " aaa ", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeStart": "[C2]"
}, "text", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeEnd": "[\/C2]"
}],
"target": [{
"id": "c1",
"standaloneCode": "[C1\/]"
}, " AAA ", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeStart": "[C2]"
}, "TEXT", {
"id": "c2",
"spanningCodeEnd": "[\/C2]"
}]
}, {
"seg": false,
"source": [". "]
}]
}
Thanks,
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Yves Savourel
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:09 PM
To: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
Hi all,
The thing that bothers me a bit with such nested content is that an innerContent does not corresponds to anything at the XLIFF level: It’s just an arbitrary choice of the object model to represent content between paired codes as an object.
Also, what would be the representation with overlapping inline codes?
For example:
<unit id="u1">
<originalData>
<data id="d1">[C1]</data>
<data id="d2">[C2]</data>
<data id="d3">[/C1]</data>
<data id="d4">[/C2]</data>
</originalData>
<segment>
<source><sc id="c1" dataRef="d1"/>text1 <sc id="c2" dataRef="d2"/>text2 <ec startRef="c1" dataRef="d3"/>text3 <ec startRef="c2" dataRef="d4"/></source> </segment> </unit>
In a “linear” representation the source content would give something like this:
[{
"kind": 0,
"id": "c1",
"data": "[C1]"
}, "text1 ", {
"kind": 0,
"id": "c2",
"data": "[C2]"
}, "text2 ", {
"kind": 1,
"id": "c1",
"data": "[\/C1]"
}, "text3 ", {
"kind": 1,
"id": "c2",
"data": "[\/C2]"
}]
What would be the “nested” representation?
Cheers,
-yves
From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Ryan King
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 10:45 AM
To: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: FW: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
Hi all,
Regarding our discussion on the call this morning, the example below that shows text + internal tags + text illustrates how the “text” portions are on top-level but shouldn’t have duplicate keys.
“Alert” and “ Get it today” for example. However, codeEnd can be duplicated since they are embedded.
["Alert: ", {
"id": "1",
"codeStart": "<h1>",
"innerContent": {
"id": "2",
"codeStart": "[productname=\"",
"content": "Acme Phone",
"codeEnd": "\"]"
},
"content": " now available in stores",
"codeEnd": "</h1>"
},
" Get it today"
]
Thanks,
Ryan
From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Ryan King
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:18 AM
To: Phil Ritchie <Phil.Ritchie@vistatec.com>; Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>; xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
Thanks Yves and Phil for steering us in the right direction and correcting my suggestion in favor of not just standards but also best practices!
Let’s go one step further. What if we have text preceding and following innerContent? We might get something like this:
<originalData>
<data id="d1"><h1></data>
<data id="d2"></h1></data>
<data id="d3"><br/></data>
<data id="d4">[productname name="</data> <data id="d5">"]</data> </originalData>
<!--
Alert: <h1>[productname name="Acme Phone"] now available in stores.</h1> Get it today!
-->
<source>Alert: <pc id="1" dataRefStart="d1" dataRefEnd="d2"><pc id="2" dataRefStart="d4" dataRefEnd="d5">Acme Phone</pc> now available in stores.</pc> Get it today!</source>
["Alert: ", {
"id": "1",
"codeStart": "<h1>",
"codeEnd": "</h1>",
"innerContent": {
"id": "2",
"codeStart": "[productname=\"",
"codeEnd": "\"]",
"innerContent": "Acme Phone"
}
},
" now available in stores."
" Get it today!“
]
How would I know, though, where to place </h1>? So how about something even more explicit:
["Alert: ", {
"id": "1",
"codeStart": "<h1>",
"innerContent": {
"id": "2",
"codeStart": "[productname=\"",
"content": "Acme Phone",
"codeEnd": "\"]"
},
"content": " now available in stores",
"codeEnd": "</h1>"
},
" Get it today"
]
Thanks,
Ryan
From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Phil Ritchie
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 3:48 PM
To: Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>; xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
All
I came across the same issue as Yves with Ryan's notation, namely duplicate keys. The Newtonsoft Json library used by most C# developers strips off the first plaintext field.
From playing with both, nested inline tags are also difficult to handle in Ryan's notation.
I did find Ryan's more intuitive to read though.
We have quite a lot of content that contains custom placeholders with translateable attributes. In XLIFF, right or wrong, we encode as:
<originalData>
<data id="d1"><b></data>
<data id="d2"></b></data>
<data id="d3"><br/></data>
<data id="d4">[productname name="</data> <data id="d5">"]</data> </originalData>
<!--
<h1>[productname name="Acme Phone"] now available in stores</h1>
-->
<source>
<pc id="1" dataRefStart="d1" dataRefEnd="d2"> <pc id="2" dataRefStart="d4" dataRefEnd="d5">Acme Phone</pc> now available in stores </pc> </source>
Making a hybrid of Yves and Ryan's notation I get:
[
{
"id": "1",
"codeStart": "<h1>",
"codeEnd": "</h1>",
"innerContent": {
"id": "2",
"codeStart": "[productname=\"",
"codeEnd": "\"]",
"innerContent": "Acme Phone"
}
},
" now available in stores"
]
Phil
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-
> open.org] On Behalf Of Yves Savourel
> Sent: 15 January 2016 22:03
> To: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
>
> Hi Ryan, all,
>
> I don't think it would be a good idea to use a notation where the
> names of the objects correspond to their type, like in your example.
>
> We would have duplicates (like "plainText" twice in your example) and
> it is likely to cause trouble.
>
> The JSON specification does not say anything explicit about uniqueness
> of the names. But RFC 7159 (The JSON Data Interchange Format:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-4) says "The names within
> an object SHOULD be unique". And usually one is better off treating a
> SHOULD like a MUST unless there are very good reason to do otherwise.
>
> The main example of issue with duplicated names is that many
> implementations of JSON reader use some kind of Map, Hash, or
> Dictionary classes that do not support duplication of keys.
>
> See also the discussion here:
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21832701/does-json-syntax-allow-
> duplicate-keys-in-an-object. The consensus seems to be that, while
> strictly speaking JSON does not forbid uniqueness of the names, it is
> a really good idea to keep these names unique for all kinds of very valid reasons.
>
> Cheers,
> -yves
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan King [mailto:ryanki@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 1:39 PM
> To: Ryan King <ryanki@microsoft.com>; Yves Savourel
> <ysavourel@enlaso.com>; xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
>
> Sorry, I should also ask the question of why original codes need a
> type, or kind, as you indicate below. Couldn't they just be distinct
> objects in the model? Maybe there is a nuance I am missing, though.
>
> For example:
> standaloneCode
> spanningCode
> spanningCodeStart
> spanningCodeEnd
> etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-
> open.org] On Behalf Of Ryan King
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:12 AM
> To: Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>;
> xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
>
> Hi Yves,
>
> Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I absolutely agree with you that
> we should just start defining the JSON representation.
> Starting at inline and working out is good, as well. Once we agree on
> inline representation, the rest is easier. So I'm all for this
> approach. I do see the representation of your sample a bit
> differently, however. In the MS OM, the sample would be represented as
> an array of four objects: PlainText, SpanningCode, PlainText,
> StandaloneCode - just using those object names as an examples, you could serialize it to something like this:
>
> {
>
> "plainText": "Text in",
>
> "spanningCode": {
>
> "id": "1",
>
> "codeStart": "<b>",
>
> "codeEnd": "</b>",
>
> "innerText": "bold"
>
> },
>
> "plainText": "format.",
>
> "standaloneCode": {
>
> "id": "2",
>
> "code": "<br>"
>
> }
>
> }
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff-omos@lists.oasis-
> open.org] On Behalf Of Yves Savourel
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:13 PM
> To: xliff-omos@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [xliff-omos] A few notes in JSON and inline content
>
> Hi all,
>
> We have to start somewhere, so maybe a good place is a simple inline
> content. It's one of the most tricky parts to serialize in a common
> way because the internal representation of such content is likely to
> be different in the various implementations depending on how the
> overall document is stored (e.g. DOM, DB, memory, etc.) and also on
> what the implementation goals are (e.g. do matching, be the back-end of an editor, etc.).
>
> A possible effective representation would be the simplest. It may not
> fit exactly the underlying object of all implementations, but it
> should be relatively easy to generate and parse by all.
>
> Such content is simply an array of objects. So for example, if we have
> this object (here in XLIFF so everyone can relate to it):
>
> <originalData>
> <data id='d1'>&lf;b></data>
> <data id='d2'></b></data>
> <data id='d3'><br></data>
> </originalData>
> ...
> <source>Text in <pc id='1' dataRefStart='d1' dataRefEnd='d2'>bold</pc>
> format.<ph id='2' dataRef='d3'/></source>
>
> The JSON representation could be something like this:
>
> [ "Text in ",
> {
> "kind":0,
> "id":"1",
> "data":"<b>"
> },
> "bold",
> {
> "kind":1,
> "id":"1",
> "data":"<\/b>"
> },
> " format.",
> {
> "kind":2,
> "id":"2",
> "data":"<br>"
> }
> ]
>
> The array has 6 objects: 3 strings, which correspond to the spans of
> plain text, and 3 objects corresponding to the inline tags. The
> objects would have a relatively identical structure. The "kind" field
> (trying to keep "type" for the
> XLIFF-type) would indicate if the object is an opening code (0), and
> closing code (1), a standalone code (3), an opening marker (4) or a
> closing marker (5).
>
> We would have also some rules:
>
> - The fields that have values equals to the default value MAY be
> omitted in the JSON string.
> - The fields within the objects would have no prescribed order.
> - The fields common to both the opening and closing codes (e.g. id,
> type,
> etc.) would be represented once only: in the opening code.
> If there is no opening code (i.e. there is an isolated closing code)
> the fields would be represented in the closing code.
>
> This is just one possible representation.
> I'm sure others have better ideas and suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> -yves
>
>
>
>
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Phil Ritchie | Chief Technology Officer | VistaTEC VistaTEC House, 700 South Circular Road, Kilmainham, Dublin 8, Ireland.
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