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Subject: Re: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC March 5th. 2002

Let me make this as clear as possible:  no votes took place yesterday which
cancelled or rolled back ANYTHING.

The submitted work was approved as Committee Spec 1.0 last month and remains
our technical work of record,  and will serve as the basis for our future
work.  Yesterday's vote did not nullify or dilute any of our work to date,
nor does it change the status of the Committee Spec which has been duly
approved by a formal committee vote.

What we voted for yesterday was to reprioritize our immediate work.  We
chose to eliminate  peripheral deliverables such as 1.0 schema,  conformance
plans,  whitepaper and interoperability and focus our energy on revising the
core specification to a 1.1 level.

Regarding the minutes:   John is correct that proposals for 1.1
modifications are not limited to Eric's submission - the minutes are
misleading in this respect.  All members were encouraged to submit their
proposals before May 1 - the proposed deadline for submitting proposals in
advance of our mid-May face-to-face meeting.  Eric was specifically
encouraged to submit his proposal in advance of the meeting because he has
been so outspoken and because is likely unable to travel to Dublin for the
face-to-face meeting.

I tend to agree with John on his characterisation of the "problems with
interoperability" comment in the minutes - although I believe the phrase was
used unintentionally (if not rather unfortunately).  The comments regarding
the spec being unworkable and an 800lb gorilla I think were taken out of

We've got a lot of work ahead of us.  I suggest we all very quickly grow a
few layers of skin and learn to moderate our criticism so that it's
constructive in nature.  Let's focus on what's important and try not get
sidetracked by factional in-fighting.


John Reid wrote:

> Peter,
> From your minutes it sounds as though only Eric can propose changes to
> the spec. That is not how I understood the vote to revise 1.0. Isn't any
> member allowed to make proposals? I don't recall limiting who nor what
> could be proposed. The only limitation I know of is that the proposal
> must be posted on the list as a proposal (not a complaint about what one
> believes is "wrong" with the spec) so that specific comments to that
> proposal can be made.
> I also take exception to the phrasing, "Problems with interoperability"
> since these are only _perceived_ problems. Suggestions to "correct"
> these introduce other serious problems that were discussed and rejected
> at one time (we did have the namespace and open/closed list discussions
> in the previous work).
> We are not correcting "problems," a few members do not like some things
> and want to change them. They are extremely vocal and refer to the spec
> as unworkable and -- what was it -- an 800 pound gorilla?  RWS Group,
> Alchemy, Pass Engineering,  opentag.com, and the Okapi Framework seem to
> refute this. There are even some of us producing and using XLIFF
> internally, with considerable success.
> This is not to say that there are no improvements to be made. That is
> why we formed this TC. However, we are a wishy-washy group to vote for
> Committee Specification one day and a month later cancel that vote. That
> is more detrimental to a standard than a few perceived problems.
> Regards,
> John
> >>> Peter Reynolds <Peter.Reynolds@Berlitz.ie> 3/6/02 2:35:14 AM >>>
> Minutes of the XLIFF TC March 5th. 2002
> 1/ Roll call
> Present: Jonathan Clark, Tony Jewtushenko, Milan Karasek, Caroline
> Koff,
> Mark Levins, Christian Lieske,, Enda McDonnell  John Reid, Peter
> Reynolds,
> Reinhard Schaler, Eric D. Friedman
> Observers: Brian Briggs
> Apologies: John Corrigan, Yves Savourel
> 2/ Conformance Subcommittee
> Reinhard had posted a new charter for the conformance subcommittee. It
> was
> proposed that we accept this and set up the subcommittee. This was
> passed
> unanimously. The following people have agreed to join this committee at
> the
> February 5th. meeting: Reinhard Schaler, Enda McDonnell, Peter
> Reynolds,
> Tony Jewtushenko and John Reid.
> 3/ Schema Subcommittee/ Discussion on Specification
> The discussion which started with the report back from the Schema
> subcommittee became a more general discussion on the specification with
> the
> proposal that work should be done to edit this, correcting issues which
> were
> highlighted.
> This discussion started with Enda reporting back on the Schema
> subcommittee's discussion about attribute list and whether recommended
> lists
> should be open or closed. This led to a more general discussion on the
> schema. Problems with interoperability were pointed out. Mechanism for
> solving these issues were discussed such as using namespaces. There was
> also
> a suggestion that some of the attributes could become elements allowing
> the
> value to be PCDATA rather than have an open list.
> The case was put forward for revising the specification and to come up
> with
> a 1.1 spec. It was pointed out that version 1.1 of the spec might not
> be
> compatible with version 1.0.
> A motion was put for ward stating that we wish to revise the 1.0
> specification prior to doing the subcommittee work. This was carried
> with 6
> votes in favour and 4 abstentions.
> It was also agreed that the work on the schema subcommittee would be
> suspended.
> Eric is to send a mail to the XLIFF list putting forward his thinking
> on
> these issues and we will have a discussion using the mailing list. We
> will
> also come up with example documents which will highlight practical
> issues.
> The deadline for agreeing which recommendations we will accept was set
> as
> May 1st. with the spec being decided at our face to face meeting in
> May.
> 4/ XLIFF Whitepaper
> This will be postponed until 1.1 spec is produced.  Given the 1.1
> revision
> initiative,  the existing 1.0 whitepaper (posted to Yahoo! egroup
> DataDefinition) will not be posted to the Oasis XLIFF TC website.
> 5/ Face to Face Meeting
> The proposed dates will be either 9/10 of May (week before LRC
> presentation)
> or a combination of two of the days in the week following the LRC.
> Tony J.
> to send out proposed dates and wait for feedback on attendees.
> 6/ New Business From Yves
>  "At some point I think it would be a good idea to have actual
> implementations for a XLIFF interface. An open-source and free
> implementation in, let's say, Java and C++ (and add a COM layer to the
> C++),
> so any developer could easily add support fro reading and writing
> document."   This proposal was originally discussed as part of XLIFF
> 1.0 as
> a goal for future (post 1.0) work,  but was postponed once TC proposal
> for
> OASIS was initiated.  Discussion points included concern that an
> opensource
> API and/or source code may require support,  and may have liability
> implications and release and ownership by the TC may be prohibited by
> - Tony J. to investigate and confirm.  After some discussion,  it was
> agreed
> to postpone discussion of this work until the larger architectural
> issues of
> XLIFF 1.1 are resolved.   This item will be added to the agenda for
> the
> Face-to-face meeting and if deemed appropriate,  deliverables will be
> scoped
> at that time.
> New Business from Jonathan:  Jonathan will be travelling to the Lisa
> conference next week,  and will therefore be able to participate (along
> with
> Yves) at XLIFF+LISA discussions and negotiations.  LISA & OASIS
> management,
> will extend special invitations to targetted LISA members to
> participate in
> XLIFF TC.  Yves will represent XLIFF TC at the Saturday meeting of
> (Jonathan is invited as well).
> 7/ Next meeting to take place Tuesday 4pm,  19 March 2002.  Contact
> details
> are the same as usual,  and will be sent in a reminder a day or two in
> advance of the meeting.
> Peter Reynolds, Software Development Manager, Berlitz GlobalNET
> 3, West Pier Business Campus, Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin, Ireland
> Tel: +353-1-202-1280
> Fax: +353-1- 202-1299
> Web Site: http//www.berlitzglobalnet.com
> "Don't just translate it, BerlitzIT" http//www.berlitzIT.com
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Tony Jewtushenko    mailto:tony.jewtushenko@oracle.com
Sr. Tools Program Manager   direct tel: +353.1.8039080
Product Management - Tools Technology Team
Oracle Corporation, Ireland

org:Oracle Corporation;Tools Technology Team
title:Sr. Tools Program Manager
adr;quoted-printable:;;Eastpoint Business Park=0D=0ABlock C=0D=0AFairview;Dublin;;D3;Ireland
fn:Tony Jewtushenko

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