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Subject: Re: [xliff] Phase name attribute use

Hi Mirek et al,

I think you make some very good points and agree that we should probably remove the 'phase-name' attribute from <trans-unit> and <bin-unit> as it can be retrieved, as you state, from the child <target>.
I also think though that we should add this attribute to <alt-trans>, in doing this we will allow specification of when (i.e. which phase) a particular <target> was introduced to the XLIFF document AND when it was changed from a child <target> of <trans-unit> to a child of <alt-trans>.

My take on 'phase-name' is that it should be used to indicate when an item (e.g. a <target>) was introduced into the XLIFF document. Following from this and extending on Yves' observations, I think that we should provide another attribute in <alt-trans> to indication the reason why a given <alt-trans> is an alternate translation. This attribute could be 'reason' and by making it required we could enforce more stringent use of <alt-trans>. Values for such an attribute that spring to mind are 'TM Suggestion', 'MT Suggestion', 'Rejected-Inaccurate', 'Rejected-Spelling', 'Rejected-Grammar' and 'Rejected-Length'. Since this attribute would be providing mostly informational content, it could be just free-format plain text, though I think a supplied list of values would allow for better tooling features, i.e. nobody would want to update a translation memory with a translation that was rejected for a misspelling, but an inaccurate translation for a given case may be useful.



Mark Levins
IBM Software Group | Dublin Software Laboratory | Airways Industrial Estate | Cloghran | Dublin 17 | Ireland
Phone: +353 1 7046676 | IBM Tie Line 166676

Mirek Driml <MirekD@moravia-it.com>

04/12/2002 15:46

[xliff] Phase name attribute use

Hi all,

I've been looking at the phase-name attribute issue and also have discussed
it with my coleague Milan Karasek who participated in XLIFF before. The
result of my observation is:

phase-name attribute is used for in <target> and <trans-unit> elements (and
also in phase, bin-unit and bin-target elements)

We use <source> and <target> elements inside the <trans-unit> element to
keep the current translation. There are two cases:
1. there is no <target> element - i.e. the unit hasn't been translated yet
hence we don't need to store any information about phase
2. there is <target> element containing phase-name attribute which says in
which phase the translation unit occurs

Since the current phase information can be retrieved from the <target>
attribute I think we don't need phase-name attribute in the <trans-unit>
element and my proposal is to remove it from there.

Concerning alt-trans element and use of phase-name, following Yves'
observation, I've found we can use it
1. to identify a different suggestion from a TM
2. to capture the evolution of translation during the translation process
3. to identify rejected translations

ad 1) As Yves observered  the different suggestion from the TM should always
have quality-match attribute but no phase-name attribute until it wasn't
ad 2) The evolution of translation during the translation process is fully
covered by the phase-name attribute used in the <target> element that
resides inside the <alt-trans> element. Only the <target> elements with
phase-name attribute keep the text used during the process and the
phase-name attribute defines which phase it was used in.
ad 3) I'm not sure what exactly is meant by "rejected translations"
a) if rejected translation is the translation that was used in the process
and later it was corrected e.g. by proofreader then it is included in the
case 2) and we can simply find what and when was changed
b) if rejected translation is the suggestion from any other source than TM
that has never been used then it should be stored in the <alt-trans> element
without any phase-name and quality-match attributes

Taking into account the observation above - my proposal is to remove
phase-name atttribute from <trans-unit> element and to describe the use of
the <alt-trans> element in the specification in more details to avoid any
confusion. Similarly it would be removed from <bin-unit> element.

I'm looking forward to your response.

Best regards,

Milan is considering re-joining the XLIFF TC.

Miroslav Driml
SW Group Manager
Moravia IT, a.s.
Hilleho 4,  602 00 Brno, Czech Republic
Phone:        + 420-545-552-173
Fax:        + 420-545-552-233
E-mail:        mailto:mirekd@moravia-it.com
WWW:        http://www.moravia-it.com
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