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Subject: Groups - 3rd Face to Face - Washington D.C. modified
3rd Face to Face - Washington D.C. has been modified by Tony Jewtushenko (tony.jewtushenko@oracle.com).
Date: Friday, 12 December 2003
Time: 08:00am - 12:00pm Eastern Time
Event Description:
Agenda:
3rd XLIFF TC Face to Face Meeting, in conjunction with the LISA Forum USA
http://www.lisa.org/events/2003dc/
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Friday, 12 December 2003
Time: 8am - 12 noon
Venue: Hyatt Regency Hotel Capital Hill, 400 New Jersey Avenue, NW,
Washington, D.C. 20001 USA
Hotel website: http://washingtonregency.hyatt.com/property/index.jhtml
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Dial-up instructions: to be communicated later
Note: No video conference facility for this meeting
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Agenda:
8:00: Welcome, introductions, agenda tweak, etc.
8:05 Summary of XLIFF TC achievements since last F2F
1.1 Committee Specification and XSD
Standardised XLIFF presentation
1.1 Whitepaper
1.1 Website FAQ
1.1 Peer Review
Adoption by vendor/publisher communities
8:15 XLIFF 1.1 complimentary work
Canonical Representation Guide:
-resource profiles
agree to list of resources
assign owners to individual resources
agree to schedule of deliverables
-"cookbook" examples
Sketch out contents at a high level
assign owners to major sections
Implementation Guides
best practices for developing proprietary filters
case studies for mapping proprietary resource to XLIFF
working with Web Services
9:30 Post Mortem of XLIFF 1.1 spec process
Industry perception of XLIFF
What went well
What didn't go well
Suggestions for improvement
Improvement Implementation Plan
10:00 Break
10:15 What's next?
Conclude standards submission process
-blocking issues
Discuss post 1.1 options (once complimentary work is done)
-Place TC in holding pattern with bi-monthly or quarterly
meetings
-Conclude XLIFF TC - with option to restart if / when needed
-"Clarify" charter to extend TC's work to XLIFF 1.x / 2.0
-Other suggestions
11:30 Review action item assignments, and any items in the "unresolved
issues bucket"
Noon Break for, or work through lunch, depending upon progress.
12:45 Adjourn meeting
Minutes:
Attendees:
DC: Tony, Yves, Shigemichi, John
Tel: Mat, Enda, David, Gerard
Observers: Andzrej Zydron, Kara Warburton, Dave Walters, Arle Lommel
Agenda:
8:00: Welcome, introductions, agenda tweak, etc.
no tweaks
8:05 Summary of XLIFF TC achievements since last F2F
1.1 Committee Specification and XSD
Standardised XLIFF presentation
1.1 Whitepaper
1.1 Website FAQ
1.1 Peer Review
Adoption by vendor/publisher communities
Tony listed the following implementations:
- RWS: Utilities to extract to XLIFF; Rainbow; various XLIFF XSLT,
etc.
- Alchemy Catalyst 5.0, visual XLIFF editor in separate module
- XML.Intl: editing support
- Heartsome: online XLIFF editor
- SDL: XML filter, needs target to be populated
- Trados: none but tageditor
- Passolo: visual XLIFF editor in a free downloadable module
- Bowne: Elcano
- Oracle: Hyperhub, internal editor
8:15 XLIFF 1.1 complimentary work
Canonical Representation Guide:
-resource profiles
agree to list of resources
assign owners to individual resources
agree to schedule of deliverables
-"cookbook" examples
Sketch out contents at a high level
assign owners to major sections
Implementation Guides
best practices for developing proprietary filters
case studies for mapping proprietary resource to XLIFF
working with Web Services
Tony presented a list from Mat:
- asp
- html
- javaclass
- javapropertyresourcebundle
- javaproperetyresource
- javascript
- resx
- rtf
- winres
- plaintext
- xml
Additionally we discussed:
- baml (binary blob in resx)
- xaml
- msi
- inf
It was pointed out that the winres spec had been worked on and was
close to completion. Also, Catalyst & Passolo had implemented based on
that work. There was some discussion about whether to just do generic
guidelines of objects/types regardless of source format or do a
representation for each. It was suggested that we do both the generic
dialog representation with file format specific canonical representation
that conformed to the generic guidelines. It was agreed to start with
win32 work as a basis for the generic since so much has already been
done. John will forward his latest work to the group; Gerard will
compare that with resx; Tony will look at Java Resource Bundles. That
spec will be made generic and get rid of winres specific names.
html and rtf are markup langugaes and don't lend themselves to the
same representations. Thus, separate work would need to be carried on
for these formats. It was agreed to do this in parallel. Tony will ask
Bryan and Doug if they would llike to work on these.
Since javaclass is an un-i18n file, John vehemently opposed doing
anything with this format. There was some concensus on this point.
java resource bundles should be able to map to the generic type work
we are doing. Tony will compare them with the winres spec.
The initially presented list morphed into the following list of issues:
Generic objects:
Dialogs, Forms
Menus
String Tables, Messages
Markup with inline tags (e.g., RTF, HTML Tags)
Etc.
asp
HTML, rtf (Bryan, Doug?)
javaresourcebundle (list, property) Tony
javascript
Resx – Gerard -> Enda
XAML
BAML
winres - almost finished but missing Markup. John to send out updated version
msi, inf (examples)
Embedded XLIFF in XML (examples)
Skeleton File
9:30 Post Mortem of XLIFF 1.1 spec process
Industry perception of XLIFF
Tony reported that at the recent LRC, XLIFF was mentioned negatively by
2 separate tool vendors. The problems reported are that there is no
clear representation of resources and publishers (clients) are asking
for it with unrealistic expectations of what it can do and the vendors
ability to handle it.
What went well
XLIFF reached the committee specification level.
In 1.1 we added extensibility through the namespace mechanism.
What didn't go well
1. Attendance has been a problem, Tony is being forced to follow Oasis
rules, which will move inactive voting members to observer status.
2. Gerard mentioned that drafting vs. issue resolution was 50-50 and
should have been 80-20.
3. Members not prepared at meetings.
4. Ineffective use of mailing list, use more rather than phone
5. Proposal process has been too easy, this led to constant changes
with little time to investigate the ramifications.
6. Couldn't make major changes because it was a point release.
Suggestions for improvement
Improvement Implementation Plan
10:00 Break
10:15 What's next?
Conclude standards submission process
-blocking issues
- address errata
- collect more input
- complete 1.1 specification work in January '04.
- need certification of 1.1 use from 3 Oasis members
- Oracle needs legal approval for their certification
- Tony will approach Connect (Steven Flinter)
Discuss post 1.1 options (once complimentary work is done)
-Place TC in holding pattern with bi-monthly or quarterly
meetings
-Conclude XLIFF TC - with option to restart if / when
needed
-"Clarify" charter to extend TC's work to XLIFF 1.x / 2.0
-Other suggestions
- L10n directive: (Shigemichi, Gerard) in XLIFF
- SKL file issues
- Andzrej has proposal specific to XML
- It may be premature to decide what we'll do wwhen finished since
11:30 Review action item assignments, and any items in the
"unresolved
issues bucket"
* Monthly meeting instead of weekly.
* Kara Warburton reported the following issues:
1. mrk has too much info in the mtype (it is overloaded), should be
2 elements: term and mrk
IBM
should be
IBM
We cannot use tbx namespace here because does not allow
extension points
2. state-qualifier has the same issue ....
3. Wwe need a glossary in the spec of esoteric and obscure terms
4. editorial needs
- descriptions are totally useless
- need examples
Noon Break for, or work through lunch, depending upon progress.
12:45 Adjourn meeting
ACTION ITEMS:
1. John will forward the latest Novell Formats specification, with
winres, java properties, and others, after passing it through legal.
(Due: 03/12/19)
2. Tony will ask Brian & Doug to look at html & rtf. (Due: 03/12/19)
3. Gerard & Enda will review resx to determine if the winres spec
satisfies those requirements. (Due: 04/1/16 [dialogs first])
4. Tony will review java resource bundles to determine if the winres
spec satisfies those requirements. (Due: 04/1/16 [dialogs first])
5. John will review java properties to determine if the winres spec
satisfies those requirements. (Due: 04/1/16 [dialogs first])
6. John will create a template for the formal proposal process. (Due:
04/1/16)
7. Tony will create a change mgmt process. (Due: 04/1/16)
View event details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=3167
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