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Subject: RE: [xliff] RE: How to translate text within G tags?

Title: Message
Hi Doug,
I thought about this when I wrote that portion of the HTML profile.
From a philosophical view, I strongly think I bpt/ept should only be used in XLIFF files that are derived from non-markup formats (RTF, for example).
I really don't like the idea of using bpt/ept on XLIFF files derived from HTML, XHTML, or XML files.  I see "begin paired tag" and "end paired tag" as an artificial device.  It could easily lead to malformed XML on the conversion from XLIFF back to HTML.
Assuming the source file is well formed, it would be a shame to have to delimit inline elements in an artificial way.  If <g tags are defined in the spec in such a way that they are thought to be for non-translatable text, I would vote to either update the specification, or come up with a new element for identifying translatable inline elements in <target elements.
Thanks to Doug and Rodolfo for brining this issue to light,
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Domeny [mailto:ddomeny@ektron.com]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:29 PM
To: 'Rodolfo M. Raya'
Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xliff] RE: How to translate text within G tags?

Rodolfo, others,


Yes, I can see where <g> could be interpreted as containing only non-translatable codes.


I based my use of them on the HTML profile document (see below).


I’ve copied the rest of the XLIFF cmte for their input.


Should the HTML profile be revised to use bpt/ept instead of <g> for inline elements?

3.1.4. Inline Elements

In most cases, inline elements are very well suited to be mapped to <g>. The value of their ctype attribute should be a concatenation of  'x-html-' and the name of the element (in lowercase). For example: <b> would be mapped to <g ctype='bold'>.


<p>In Portland, Oregon one may <i>ski</i> on the mountain, <b>wind surf</b> in the gorge, and <i>surf</i> in the ocean, all on the same day.</p>

should be mapped to:

<trans-unit id='1' restype='x-html-p'>
 <source xml:lang='en'>In Portland, Oregon one may <g id='i1' ctype='x-html-i'>ski</g> on the mountain, <g id='i1' ctype='bold'>wind surf</g> in the gorge, and <g id='i1' ctype='x-html-i'>surf</g> in the ocean, all on the same day.</source>





Doug Domeny

Software Analyst


Ektron, Inc.

+1 603 594-0249 x212



From: Rodolfo M. Raya [mailto:rodolfo@heartsome.net]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:01 PM
To: Doug Domeny
Subject: Re: How to translate text within G tags?


Hi Doug,

As far as I know, <g> elements contain inline codes, not translatable text.

>From the specs: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xliff/documents/xliff-specification.htm#g


Generic group placeholder - The
<g> element is used to replace any inline code of the original document that has a beginning and an end, does not overlap other paired inline codes, and can be moved within its parent structural element.

To me, this means that <g> is used to wrap moveable inline code and for "inline code" I understand tags inherent to the formatting of the document, i.e. "\i" and "\i0" to mark start and end of italics in RTF or "<i>" and "</i>" for the same purpose in HTML. IMO, only the formatting portion can be enclosed in <g>. Notice that <g> cannot contain any <sub> element with translatable text inside.

In your example I would enclose the text "no need to download again in a <bpt>/<ept> pair.

According to the introduction of the specs, XLIFF "borrows" elements from TMX and you can read a clear example of handling italics in TMX at http://www.lisa.org/standards/tmx/tmx.html#ContentMarkup_Rules

If you consider <g> as a black box with translatable text that can be moved, the translatable text that it contains may end at any location in the translated segment. The result can be horrible.

Think on RTF documents that when converted to XLIFF contains tags in the middle of a word in the source text. Most of the times those tags are originated in change tracking and signal the correction of a spelling error. Translators usually place those tags at the end of the segment or after the corresponding word in  their translations but never in the middle of the equivalent word in the target language. This is the typical use case for <g> tags.

Best regards,

On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 17:20 -0500, Doug Domeny wrote:



While testing with the XLIFF Editor, I couldn’t find a way to translate text between <g> tags.


For example,



How would a translator translate the phrase “not need to download again”?


The XLIFF is:


<target state="needs-translation">Before you can use eWebEditPro, it must be downloaded into your browser. When you click the <g id="2" ctype="bold">Install Now</g>button at the bottom of this page, eWebEditPro will be automatically downloaded and installed. This process may take several minutes depending on the speed of your network connection. Once downloaded, eWebEditPro will <g id="4" ctype="italic">not need to download again</g> unless upgrading to a newer version.</target>






Doug Domeny

Software Analyst


Ektron, Inc.

+1 603 594-0249 x212




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