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Subject: RE: [xliff] FW: [xliff-comment] Schema issues with extensible attributes

Title: Message
Hi Tony,
My opinion is that all things considered, Doug's solution is best:
<xsd:anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="skip"
In something of a departure for me, I think from a practical point of view, we want people to be able to be able to start using XLIFF 1.2 as soon as possible.  Therefore, given the wide range of behaviors by the different validation tools, Doug's solution causes the least risk of disruption (caused by a tool improperly implementing the W3C XML Schema standard).  I don't think we can be as prescriptive as we'd like, at this point.
Had I taken my usual stand, as an XML purist, I would have voted to leave it as we originally wrote it.  As you mentioned earlier, we were very thorough when we discussed the mechanisms for implementing extensibility for elements and attributes.  We spent a lot of time discussing the differences between the ##any, ##other, ##local, namespace values.  We also spent a lot of time before choosing between lax, skip, and strict processContents values.  And, in theory, I think we got it right (even for today's situation with our strict, and transitional models).  Back then we said our intent was that the extensibility choices for anyAttribute should be that any attribute, from any schema (including XLIFF) should be eligible.  And we said that in cases where that schema was available, a validation should take place.  Back then, as I remember it, just a couple of us were doing the mock-ups and use cases, and test validations.  I guess we had the luxury of doing our tests at a time when there we just a few tools to choose from to do the validations.  At the time XSV 1.2, worked exactly loyal to the spec. 
I totally share Asgeir's concern about not being able to validate namespaced attributes, but I don't think there's much we can do about it, for now.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Jewtushenko [mailto:tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:42 AM
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xliff] FW: [xliff-comment] Schema issues with extensible attributes


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Jewtushenko [mailto:tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com]
20 October 2006 19:39
To: 'Doug Domeny'
Cc: 'Rodolfo M. Raya'; 'xliff-comment@lists.oasis-open.org'; 'Asgeir Frimannsson'
Subject: RE: [xliff-comment] Schema issues with extensible attributes




What is the opinion of the TC on the “lax” vs. “skip” processing issue?   Until there is some feedback from the TC I will hold off on balloting… If we’re satisfied with using “skip” I can bundle the schemas & sample docs together with the spec and set up a ballot.  In this case I would have to revise the spec section on using the XSD’s to indicate that external schemas are ignored when validating with the transitional XSD.


If we need further investigation & discussion it’s worth holding off until we come to a clear consensus.  Either way, please make your views known.





-----Original Message-----
From: Asgeir Frimannsson [mailto:asgeirf@gmail.com]
20 October 2006 01:35
To: Doug Domeny
Cc: Tony Jewtushenko; Rodolfo M. Raya; xliff-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff-comment] Schema issues with extensible attributes


Doug, all,

Thank you for the detailed explanations of the XML schema issues, especially for the clarification on meaning of use='prohibited' .

I am a slightly concerned with changing processContent from 'lax' to 'skip', as this will not allow us to validate foreign elements/attributes easily. I was not able to reproduce this bug in xsv (same version as you) or .NET ( 2.0), and I was not able to find a report or reference to this bug on msdn or google. Can you share some more information on this?

(after some further testing) It seems that the xsv validator attempts to resolve the schema location from the namespace name if no schemalocation is set, ( e.g. if your namespace is http://example.com/example it will try and load the schema from this location, or if filename-like it will try and load it as a relative url/file). It is important to note however that while this is reported in the validator output, it is NOT a validation problem, as the schema is still reported as valid. If set to 'strict' however, the missing schema is reported as a validation error, as expected.


On 10/19/06, Doug Domeny <ddomeny@ektron.com> wrote:

Asgeir, XLIFF TC,

Thanks for pointing out these issues.

Attached are the modified schemas and Sample_AlmostEverything* files. Note
that the files are appended with today's date so that they do not
accidentally overwrite the official copies. Just rename them to remove the
date from the file name.

Asgeir, please test them using your validator(s).

Here's a summary of the changes:

1. Sample_AlmostEverything_1.2_transitional.xlf

1.1 Fixed the file name of the schema by removing the date as pointed out by

2. Sample_AlmostEverything_1.2_strict.xlf

2.1 Fixed the file name of the schema by removing the date as pointed out by

2.2 Remove deprecated attributes.

3. xliff-core-1.2-transitional.xsd

3.1 processContents="skip" (was "lax")

The value "lax" is the correct value except that two of the validators (.NET
XML Parser and XSV 2.10-1) complain that they cannot read the schema. In
short, they treat "lax" the same as "strict". Although I consider these bugs
in the parsers, it seems better to use "skip" so that all the parsers I have
(see list below) succeed. Besides, the validation is slightly faster because
it does not need to check for a schema. The only downside is that if a
schema is available for the 'other' namespace, it will be ignored.

3.2 Removed occurrence from xsd:sequence for 'tool' element.

<xsd:element name="tool">
        <xsd:complexType mixed="true">
                <xsd:sequence maxOccurs="unbounded" minOccurs="0">
                        <xsd:any maxOccurs="unbounded" minOccurs="0" ...
is now

<xsd:element name="tool">
        <xsd:complexType mixed="true">
                        <xsd:any maxOccurs="unbounded" minOccurs="0" ...

Only one of the validators (Xerces or XSV) complained about the (potential)

4. xliff-core-1.2-strict.xsd

Same changes as in transitional, plus:

4.1 Removed deprecated attributes. They previously were declared with

The use="prohibited" attribute is a bit confusing. As it turns out, the
standard states that use="prohibited" is only useful when a definition
inherits from a base definition, such as when adding a restriction. In this
situation, the use="prohibited" may be used to make an optional attribute in
the base definition invalid. In other words, as if it was not defined. It is
not to be used to explicitly prohibit attributes in a type that allows
xsd:anyAttribute. Oh, well. The validators, however, are not consistent. The
Stylus Studio 2006 and MSXML 4.0 parsers interpret use="prohibit" to mean
the attribute is invalid. The newer parsers follow the standard and complain
if use="prohibit" is used when there is no base definition. OK, so to comply
with the standard and newer parsers, we can't define deprecated attributes
with use="prohibited", we must simply not define them and hope the parser
will treat them as invalid.

4.2 Changed namespace from ##any to ##other to invalidate deprecated

<xsd:anyAttribute namespace="##any"


<xsd:anyAttribute namespace="##other"

The other half of this change is the namespace for anyAttribute. As Tony
pointed out, the TC chose '##any' to support backward and forward
compatibility. However, W3C XML Schema does not provide a way to override
anyAttribute and explicitly prohibit deprecated attributes, so the namespace
'##other' is needed, as Rodolfo suggested. Since this is only for the
'strict' edition of the XLIFF schema, it should be acceptable.

List of validators I have:

Stylus Studio 2006 built-in
MSXML 4.0 DOM Parser
MSXML 6.0 DOM Parser
Saxonica 8.7 Validator
.NET XML Parser (probably .NET 1.0, but I'm not sure)
Xerces-J 2.5.1
XSV 2.10-1


Doug Domeny
Software Analyst

Ektron, Inc.
+1 603 594-0249 x212

-----Original Message-----
From: Asgeir Frimannsson [mailto: asgeirf@gmail.com]
Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:13 PM
To: xliff-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xliff-comment] Schema issues with extensible attributes

Hi all,

I just noticed that the deprecated attributes from 1.1 (eg. ts, tool) are
still being accepted in 1.2 using the strict schema. They are defined with
use="prohibited" in the strict schema. A good example of this is the example
XLIFF file provided with the specification
(Sample_AlmostEverything_1.2_strict.xlf) - the file still includes all
prohibited attributes, and validates fine with schema validators.

At first I thought this was a bug in the validator I'm using, but then i
noticed how the attribute extension points are defined in the XLIFF schema
(transitional and strict):

      <xsd:anyAttribute namespace="##any" processContents="lax"/>

The XLIFF specification states that "Attributes of a namespace different
than XLIFF can be included in several XLIFF elements". The schema allows for
attributes of any namespace to be included, including xliff-namespace
attributes not defined in the specification. The schema and specification
are inconsistent here, and it seems the right thing to do would be to change
all anyAttribute elements to:

      <xsd:anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax"/>

In addition, some issues with the strict sample XLIFF file provided with the
- schemaLocation points to xliff-core-1.2-strict-20060512.xsd (should point
to xliff-core-1.2-strict.xsd)
- As noted, It still includes the prohibited attributes (eg. tool, ts)

And similar with the transitional sample XLIFF file:
- schemaLocation points to xliff-core-1.2-transitional-20060512.xsd (should
point to xliff-core-1.2-transitional.xsd)


Asgeir Frimannsson
PhD Candidate
School of Software Engineering and Data Communications
Queensland University of Technology
126 Margaret Street, Level 3
Brisbane QLD 4001, Australia

Phone: (+61) 7 3138 9332 Mob: (+61) 405 412 696
Email: a.frimannsson@qut.edu.au

Asgeir Frimannsson
PhD Candidate
School of Software Engineering and Data Communications
Queensland University of Technology
126 Margaret Street, Level 3
Brisbane QLD 4001, Australia

Phone: (+61) 7 3138 9332 Mob: (+61) 405 412 696
Email: a.frimannsson@qut.edu.au

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