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Subject: RE: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members
Hi Robin,
Thanks for taking the time to clearly explain this situation. It seems all is in order and accounted for. I just have one small remaining curiosity. You mention in your note that eligible voters *are* notified, and that other TC members are not:
> Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC
> when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible
> voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons
> identified as "eligible" in the ballot.
My motivation for sending a separate note to the list to announce the ballot was that I did not see any evidence that even the eligible members were notified. It seemed to me that after I initiated the ballot - nobody (including the eligible members) received notification.
So here's a question to the voting TC members: did any/all of you get a notification that the ballot had begun (besides my side note)?
If the answer is no, that means kavi may have a more serious bug than you described, Robin. If the answer is yes, perhaps that means that only the ballot initiator does not get a notification (which is a bit clunky, but not the end of the world).
Thanks,
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:25 AM
To: Schnabel, Bryan S
Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Robin Cover; Chet Ensign
Subject: Re: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members
Bryan, I just noticed your bewilderment [1] about Kavi not
sending the TC a notification message that your TC Ballot
had been opened, and your self-doubt about possible
incorrect gestures in ballot setup, needing Kavi training, etc:
> I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe
> I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of
> unexpected results
Not your fault! I made cursory inspection of the ballot you
set up (from the Kavi point of view) and scan of the
related email messages to the TC [3].
It appears to me that you set up the ballot exactly right,
and that you did nothing incorrectly. I have copied out
the ballot details below [2] for XLIFF TC members to
inspect, including the list of persons reckoned as
eligible to vote.
From inspection of the TC list messages (initial motion,
motion revised to clarify that a TC Liaison with the XLIFF
TC is desired, preliminary nomination of someone to
serve as the liaison for the TC) it appears that the process
for creating the TC Liaison you want is now underway
via the TC Ballot:
http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/liaison#tcliaison
As to Kavi: Bryan, you are not the first person to be surprised
by the fact that Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC
when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible
voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons
identified as "eligible" in the ballot.
IMO, that constitutes a significant flaw in the Kavi
balloting system (as configured). I can think of
many reasons why all TC members should receive
an automatic notice from the system (e.g., sent to
the TC Members/Observers via the TC list) when a
ballot is opened.
For one thing: the ballot may have been set up incorrectly
e.g., failing to reckon as "eligible" some person or
persons who personally believe they ARE eligible to
vote in the ballot.
If no notification is sent to the entire list, then someone
omitted in error (or allegedly in error) does not have
predictable opportunity to even know that a ballot is
underway, and to notice the omission.
A workaround sometimes used by TC Admin may provide
a model for you as Chair in the XLIFF TC. When we set
up a Special Majority ballot for the TC e.g., for Committee
Specification approval, we:
a) create the ballot in Kavi
b) wait for notice to be sent back to the ballot creator
via email message
c) forward that email message (or send equivalent email
message annotated) to the TC list -- where the message
contains the text of the ballot and identifies the eligible
voting members for that ballot, as reckoned
d) explicitly invite all TC members to review the ballot text
for correctness of the motion and for the list of
eligible voters, asking for corrections that might need
to be made, if any
I'll try to raise the (Kavi) notification issue with other OASIS
Staff to see if improvements ( at least as ballot set options)
can be made in the new/upcoming "Kavi 5" rollout.
Robin Cover
OASIS
[1] Bryan's note about ballot notification ==============
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00036.html
Subject: Ballot is open to voting members
From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>
To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 09:36:42 -0700
Hello TC,
It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had
initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter).
Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting
member go to
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php
and cast your vote on the open ballot.
(I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I
need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of
unexpected results)
- Bryan
[2] Ballot details =============================
XLIFF Ballot
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballot.php?id=2027
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2027
Ballot Details
Should the XLIFF TC provide a Unicode representative?
The XLIFF TC shall elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF
TC to Unicode for the formal liaison membership between
Unicode Consortium and the OASIS XLIFF TC.
"Yes" means wish the TC to hold an election / "No" means
wish the TC to not hold an election.
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain
Opening: Friday, 6 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET
Closing: Thursday, 12 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET
Eligible Voting Members listed
Voting Details
Yves Savourel ENLASO Corporation
David Walters IBM
Helena Chapman IBM
Bryan Schnabel* Individual
Lucia Morado Vazquez Localisation Research Centre*
David Filip Localisation Research Centre*
Rodolfo Raya Maxprograms
Peter Reynolds Polish Association of Translation Agencies...
Christian Lieske SAP AG*
Andrew Swift SDL International*
[3] earlier postings on topic =============================
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00030.html
Subject: Motion to conduct an electronic ballot
From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>
To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 12:57:41 -0700
Hello TC voting members,
Helena has proposed a ballot that we "Elect a representative
from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for the formal liaison
membership between Unicode Consortium and OASIS." Further
details are contained in the attached thread.
Per the OASIS policy
(http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process#voting ),
I invite any eligible voting member to second Helena's motion.
Normally the motion to hold an electronic ballot must be made
in a TC meeting. But I will use the clause that our TC " has
adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on the
TC's general email list."
As soon as I receive a second, I will set up the ballot in kavi
(in accordance with our TC's standing custom). Per the OASIS
policy, the ballot period will be seven days (this is the
minimum duration). At the conclusion a simple majority will
either pass or not pass the proposal.
Followups: --------------
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00032.html
Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot
From: "Peter Reynolds" <p.reynolds@maart.pl>
To: "Schnabel, Bryan S"
<bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>,<xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 22:15:40 +0200
Hi Bryan,
I am happy to second this but I think that we make sure
this is a formal liaison between Unicode Consortium
and OASIS XLIFF TC and not just with OASIS. It the
liaison was just with OASIS we should consult Jamie Clark.
I would also like to nominate David Filip as the liaison
if this motion is passed.
Thannks and I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend,
Peter.
------------------------
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00033.html
Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot
From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>
To: Peter Reynolds <p.reynolds@maart.pl>, Helena S Chapman<hchapman@us.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:40:25 -0700
Hi Helena,
Peter seconds, but would like to add the specific reference
to XLIFF. Is this wording acceptable to you:
"Elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for
the formal liaison membership between Unicode Consortium
and the OASIS XLIFF TC."
If so I will initiate that ballot.
Thanks,
Bryan
------------------------
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00034.html
Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot
From: Helena S Chapman <hchapman@us.ibm.com>
To: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:12:12 -0400
Sounds good to me or "okie, dokie".
------------------------
On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Schnabel, Bryan S
<bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> wrote:
> Hello TC,
>
> It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter).
>
> Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting member go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php and cast your vote on the open ballot.
>
> (I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of unexpected results)
>
> - Bryan
>
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>
--
Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783
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