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Subject: RE: [xliff] Uniqueness of language pair


(sending Stephan's note to the list - I don't think he can post to the list (yet))
________________________________________
From: Stephan Bohmig [sbohmig@wordbee.com]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:37 AM
To: Dr. David Filip
Cc: Schnabel, Bryan S; Rodolfo M. Raya; xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff] Uniqueness of language pair

Hi,

Bryan gives a pertinent use case here.

Since I was not able to follow the discussion from the beginning, this question may be redundant:

* What is the rationale to not extend the standard to multilingual contents?

I believe that nicely aligned multi lingual xliffs are beneficial for revision and proofreading tasks. It can also be helpful for consistency when e.g. an Italian translator gets in his xliff previously translated and approved Spanish texts.

Thanks,

Stephan Bohmig
Wordbee




On 16 janv. 2012, at 19:56, "Dr. David Filip" <David.Filip@ul.ie<mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie>> wrote:

Bryan, thanks for providing this straw man..

Dr. David Filip
=======================
LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS
University of Limerick, Ireland
telephone: +353-6120-2781
mobile: +353-86-049-34-68
facsimile: +353-6120-2734
mailto: david.filip@ul.ie<mailto:david.filip@ul.ie>



On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 15:47, Schnabel, Bryan S <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com<mailto:bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I don’t have any real strong feelings on this issue. But I will offer a real world use case from the translation buyer perspective. In my company multilingual documents are pretty common. We use the multiple-bilingual-XLIFF-files approach that seems to be favored by most in this thread.  I’m the one who writes and maintains the code on the client side to see that the XLIFF files reconnect in harmony at the conclusion of the translation cycle. For example for this file:

<doc>
 <p lang=’en’ id=’e1’>Hello</p>
 <p lang=’de’ id=’d1’>xxxHello</p>
 <p lang=’fr’ id=’f1’>xxxHello</p>

 <p lang=’en’ id=’e2’>Goodbye</p>
 <p lang=’de’ id=’d2’>xxxGoodbye</p>
 <p lang=’fr’ id=’f2’>xxxGoodbye</p>
</doc>

We send out these files:

de_hello-goodbye.xlf, fr_hello-goodbye.xlf

And the CMS maintains hello-goodbye.config in order to weave the XLIFF files back together in the end. Of course this illustration is greatly simplified.

It is not uncommon for this process to go sideways, usually due to some hiccup having to do with anomalies introduced into one of the files on the translation vendor side (again, in reality the files are large and complex).

As a developer who supports the CMS translation workflow, multilingual XLIFF files would be very appealing. I think it would be much easier to detect a problem by parsing a single file, rather than needing to compare 20 15000-line files.

Something like this would be nice:

<xliff>
 <config target-lang=’de;fr’>
   <skel>
     <doc>
       <p lang=’en’ id=’e1’ />
       <p lang=’de’ id=’d1’ />
       <p lang=’fr’ id=’f1’ />
       <p lang=’en’ id=’e2’ />
       <p lang=’de’ id=’d2’ />
       <p lang=’fr’ id=’f2’ />
     </doc>
   </skel>
 </config>
 <file id=”d”>
     <unit idref='d1'>
      <s>Hello</s>
      <t>xxx</t>
     </unit>
     <unit idref='d2'>
      <s>Goodbye</s>
      <t>xxx</t>
     </unit>
 </file>
 <file id=”f”>
     <unit idref='f1'>
      <s>Hello</s>
      <t>xxx</t>
     </unit>
     <unit idref='f2'>
      <s>Goodbye</s>
      <t>xxx</t>
     </unit>
 </file>
</xliff>

So the question . . . would this approach be radically different and/or difficult to support by CAT tools and LSPs?

I can support either way, so I have no strong feelings. For me the multilingual is merely a “nice-to-have” option.

- Bryan



________________________________________
From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> [xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>] On Behalf Of Rodolfo M. Raya [rmraya@maxprograms.com<mailto:rmraya@maxprograms.com>]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 1:32 AM
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: RE: [xliff] Uniqueness of language pair

Hi,

Translation packages and XLIFF documents are two different things.

A package could be multilingual, have Dolby Surround sound, subtitles and 3D images. That's not an obstacle for XLIFF being just bilingual.

Regards,
Rodolfo
--
Rodolfo M. Raya       rmraya@maxprograms.com<mailto:rmraya@maxprograms.com>
Maxprograms       http://www.maxprograms.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>] On Behalf
> Of Yves Savourel
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 1:50 AM
> To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org<mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: RE: [xliff] Uniqueness of language pair
>
> > Even Wordbee suggested the construct only for the purpose of bulk
> > project exchange and would not consider it seriously for translating.
>
> I think multilingual translation packages can be handled at the package level.
> There are efforts with Linport and Interoperability Now to get some
> standardized package format done. Those could be easily made of several
> sets of bilingual XLIFF.
>
> The drawback: source is duplicated in different places: that make sense to
> me as the package will get eventually split into smaller parts for bilingual work
> anyway.
>
> In other words: XLIFF should provide a relatively small granularity: bilingual
> files are what translators are using. Then, if needed, XLIFF documents can be
> combined for larger purposes.
>
> Cheers,
> -ys
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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