RE: [xliff] Minimum set of container elements for XLIFF 2.0

["Estreen, Fredrik" <Fredrik.Estreen@lionbridge.com>]

Hi Rodolfo, 

I really like the idea of simplifying XLIFF, especially in the core area. Using attributes instead of group elements might be a step in that direction. Many clients would never need to worry about grouping and does not actively use it today but still have to support the structural group element today. But to be able to represent the same hierarchy as we can with the 1.2 <group> element we would need two attributes on <unit> one "group-id" and one "parent-id" so we can build a tree of groups. We would also need to allow empty <units> to act as placeholders on pure group levels. 

This design would make it much simpler for tools not using / supporting groups at the expense of a more complicated design for those that do use / support them. I'm not sure the tradeoff is worth it, it might well be.

Regards,
Fredrik Estreen

-----Original Message-----
From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Rodolfo M. Raya
Sent: den 20 mars 2012 00:21
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [xliff] Minimum set of container elements for XLIFF 2.0

Hi Yves,

Grouping <unit> elements does not require a parent element; this can be done using an attribute. 

In simple terms, all <unit> elements at a given level in the source document would have the same value in an attribute that we could name "set" or "group". The value of the attribute can relate them as needed. Applications not needing to support grouping could safely ignore the attribute.

If we add an element like the old <group>, we will have <unit> elements at different nesting levels. That's extra complexity that we may not like or need if we are trying to simplify.

Regards,
Rodolfo
--
Rodolfo M. Raya       rmraya@maxprograms.com
Maxprograms       http://www.maxprograms.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org] 
> On Behalf Of Yves Savourel
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:25 PM
> To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xliff] Minimum set of container elements for XLIFF 2.0
> 
> Hi Rodolfo, Bryan, all,
> 
> > We don’t need <group>. With <unit> as container of multiple 
> > <segment> elements we have enough.
> > You can consider that the old <group> is equivalent to the new 
> > <unit> and the old <trans-unit> is the equivalent of the new 
> > <segment>/<ignorable> pair.
> 
> You make it sound like the v1.2 <group> is used to group segments and 
> that a <trans-unit> is a segment. That is incorrect. The Segmentation 
> section[1] of the v1.2 specification clearly defines how to represent 
> segmentation using <trans-unit>/<seg-source>/<mrk mtype='seg'>. Any 
> other way to represent segmentation in v1.2 is not the standard one and is not interoperable.
> 
> But we went through that discussion several times in the past years, 
> and there is not point rehashing it :)
> 
> More importantly (and regardless of v1.2 segmentation) in v2.0 we need 
> <group> to provide a way to map (completely or partially) the 
> hierarchy/structure that may exist in the original document. Basically 
> to delimit different sets of units. For example the units in a given 
> table, or in a dialog box, a menu, or to separate different types of 
> content, etc. Nothing mandatory there obviously, but the possibility 
> to structure the extracted content is needed and should be part of the core.
> 
> I hope to be able to finish the preliminary proposal for this soon. 
> There is a bit of it already there: [2]
> 
> Cheers,
> -yves
> 
> 
> [1] http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/v1.2/os/xliff-
> core.html#Struct_Segmentation
> [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0/Feature/Grouping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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