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Subject: RE: [xliff] XLIFF 2.0 spec - dF Issue #01 - Extensibility and processing requirements


FWIW, yesterday I added processing requirements to the definition of <skeleton> stating that it must be kept unchanged.

 

Regards,

Rodolfo

--
Rodolfo M. Raya       rmraya@maxprograms.com
Maxprograms      
http://www.maxprograms.com

 

From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Dr. David Filip
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:12 PM
To: Rodolfo M. Raya
Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff] XLIFF 2.0 spec - dF Issue #01 - Extensibility and processing requirements

 

All, Rodolfo, Yves,

 

I agree that the target related PR belongs there and not to the general PRs.

 

I obviously have an issue with not protecting modules as a general rule, that will of course have exceptions when removing core elements according to core processing requirements.

 

Module data are not essential in the same way as core, but unlike extensions they are the essential and only possible way how to cover their specific functionality. So they must have as a general rule a higher level of protection. Otherwise there is no substantial difference between module and extension.

 

In normative theory, special rules always beat general rules. And maybe we have so many special rules that there is little value left in setting out general processing requirements, as all implementers must obviously follow the core PRs and all implementers of modules must follow the module's PRs.

 

Still, in the general section we must at least say what to do with modules that you do not support and what to do with extensions that you do not support in case when it does not follow from core manipulations. The general principle of course is when a core element is gone and there is no clear successor the dependent module or custom data not only must not be preserved but simply cannot be preserved as there is no carrier left.

 

There is no harm in saying.. 

> - All user agents MUST follow the processing requirements associated with
> the core elements and attributes of XLIFF. Those processing requirements
> are defined throughout the specification.
Even though it is tautological, it is no harm in reiterating as a general principle..

 

This has the fundamental issue of not protecting modules better than extensions:
> - A user agent that does not support a given non-core element or attribute
> SHOULD preserve it, except when a core processing requirement specifies
> otherwise. (See, for example, section 2.8.3 Segmentation Modification).

 

So I counter propose to have the following two paragraphs instead:

 

- A user agent that does not support a given module element or attribute MUST preserve it, except when a core processing requirement specifies otherwise. (See, for example, section 2.8.3 Segmentation Modification).

 

- A user agent that does not support a given custom namespace element or attribute SHOULD preserve it, except when a core processing requirement specifies otherwise. (See, for example, section 2.8.3 Segmentation Modification, or 2.2.2.3 skeleton).

 

This general rule should be overriden with a specific rule in the section 2.2.2.3 skeleton

 

- Because skeleton - if present - is essential for merging back of translatable content, skeleton including its custom elements MUST be preserved.  

 

 

We will also need a definition of "support" in section 1.1.2 Definitions if we go with this wording.

It should say that 

to support an element or attribute means to read, understand, process, and write it according to its processing requirements.

 

 

Best regards

dF

 

 


Dr. David Filip

=======================

LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS

University of Limerick, Ireland

telephone: +353-6120-2781

cellphone: +353-86-0222-158

facsimile: +353-6120-2734



On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Rodolfo M. Raya <rmraya@maxprograms.com> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf

> Of Yves Savourel
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 11:10 AM
> To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

> Subject: RE: [xliff] XLIFF 2.0 spec - dF Issue #01 - Extensibility and processing
> requirements

Hi,


> > In latest published version of the specification document I modified
> > the general processing expectations (section 2.1) to this:
> > • A tool processing a valid XLIFF document that contains XLIFF-defined
> > elements that it cannot handle must preserve those elements.
> > • A tool processing a valid XLIFF document that contains custom
> > elements that it cannot handle should preserve those elements.
> > • When a <target> child is added to a <segment> element, the value of
> > its xml:space attribute must set to preserve if the xml:space
> > attribute of the sibling <source> element is set to preserve.
> >
> > The change covers one request from David regarding spaces and
> > separates the treatment of extensions and XLIFF elements.
> >
> > This is just a starting point, please propose a new concrete wording
> > if you want changes.
>
> I disagree with the proposal for the following reasons:
>
> 1) Not all core/module elements should always be preserved when
> manipulating the document. We need to define this per elements in some
> cases. Re-segmentation is an obvious example.
>
> 2) I assume "XLIFF-defined" means the element is part of a namespace
> defined by the XLIFF TC. But I don't think this is the same as being a
> "module". If, for example, part of ITS becomes a module, it's not "XLIFF-
> defined", but it's still a module.

XLIFF-defined should be read as "defined by the XLIFF TC". The ITS group can propose an enhancement but cannot define an XLIFF module, it has to be defined (probably based on an ITS proposal) and approved by the XLIFF TC. Any module will have to use a namespace defined by the XLIFF TC following the rules stated by OASIS.


> 3) The processing requirements about <target> belongs to the section that
> defines <target>

Sure, it should be moved.


> So, instead I propose this as general PRs:
>
> -----------
>
> - All user agents MUST follow the processing requirements associated with
> the core elements and attributes of XLIFF. Those processing requirements
> are defined throughout the specification.

Nice proposal.


> - A user agent that does not support a given non-core element or attribute
> SHOULD preserve it, except when a core processing requirement specifies
> otherwise. (See, for example, section 2.8.3 Segmentation Modification).

Nice wording as well, works for me.

Modules define elements that store non-essential data. Custom elements should not contain essential data (except in the skeleton). Maybe we should not care if non-essential data is removed.

I would prefer to say  that tools must support all core elements and follow the corresponding processing requirements. After all current core is much smaller than previous versions of XLIFF.


Regards,
Rodolfo
--
Rodolfo M. Raya       rmraya@maxprograms.com
Maxprograms       http://www.maxprograms.com

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