Subject: Groups - Event "XLIFF TC Call" modified
Event Title: XLIFF TC Call
Date: Tuesday, 03 December 2013, 11:00am to 12:00pm EST
Please get the dial in information from our private Action Item here:
This meeting counts towards voter eligibility.
I Administration (0:00 - 0:10)
A. Roll call
II XLIFF 2.0 (0:10 - 0:45)
A. Public Review II ended October 5
1. Public Review Comments are tracked here https://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF%202.0%20Public%20Review%20submitted%20comments%20tracker
2. Timeline https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/email/archives/201309/msg00029.html
B. SOU Tracker https://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF%202.0%20SOU%20Tracker
C. XLIFF 2.0 Items
Review of material issues needed to be resolved before end of December:
1. Order of core, module, and extended elements TOGETHER with schema ambiguity
Recent mailing list issues:
6. Comments on Fragment Identification (Yves)
7. Re-ordering of inline codes (Yves and DavidF)
8. proposed solutions for CSPRD 138 (Unique Particle Attribution) (Tom)
9. URI in XLIFF2 (Yves)
10. Segmentation Modifications (Yves)
11. lowermost (Yves)
12. translate in segment (Yves) [Confirmed]
13. New value for datatype: reqif (Gerhard Schneider)
III XLIFF 2.X? 3.0? (0:45 - 0:50)
1. Freeze on Feature Tracking wiki? Or queue proposed post 2.0 features there?
2. Do we have an official path for promoting custom namespace to supported core/module post XLIFF 2.0?
IV Charter (Bryan to update site)
V Sub Committee Report (0:50 - 0:55)
VI Current and New Business (0:55 - )
Date: Tuesday, 03 December 2013, 11:00am to 12:00pm EST
Roll call: David Walters, David Filip, Shirley, Victor, Helena, Tom, Fredrik, , Lucia, Kevin, Joahcim, Yves, Uwe, Bryan , David Walters
Bryan moves to approve the meeting minutes from last meeting. Fredrik seconds. Minutes approved.
Approve previous meeting minutes, 19 November 2013 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00147.html
B: Good work has been done recently. There are still some issues to be resolved today.
There has been a comment on the comment list to have a new value for the datatype attribute.
(Bryan showing the tracker), most of the issues have been solved. I will ask the people involved in the last conversations to comment on them:
D: There were two issues that can be treated together: ID scopes and Fragment Identification
Then we had the schema issue that can be dangerous (module vs. core).
B: can you give us comment numbers?
D: The id scopes are connected with a number of public review comments. I think it’s best to solve the issues at the higher level and track later what comments have been resolved.
I believe that the unique particle attribution in the core schema has currently the priority, as it might even have us start from scratch with a new initial review.
F: I think we should summarize the different goals that are not necessarily achievable together. First goal is to allow stream processing. The second goal is to allow tools to not have to know about modules. The third goal is to allow fro promotion of an extension to module simply by changing the namespace. The fourth goal is to be able to validate XLIFF documents using schema.
Problem: If the modules and extensions go before core, wildcard and explicitly allowed modules violate unique particle attribution.
One solution is to put the wildcard after core and keep modules before.
We also should restrict wildcard to other rather than any.
T:##other excludes only the namespace of the parent element
D: The other instead of any is a good point but does not solve the issue at hand. Separating wildcard from modules by required elements make it possible to use the schema to distinguish what is extension and what is module. We have voted on PRs that require that.
Y: This can be resolved by a PR saying that agnets must look at the namespace prefix and preserve XLIFF TC namespaces.
D: We have previously decided that other namespaces such as W3C would be allowed for specific modules.
Y: if you want to do that, we have to decide it now. We cannot have explicit reference to the modules in the core schema because of modularity. The only thing that you cannot validate if you remove the reference is where it should be. The bottom line is that you cannot validate everything with the schema. There are other Constraints and PRs that cannot be validated by schema.
B: I agree, I do not think that there is a schema validation language that allows you to validate all possible circumstances.
D: so what do you propose?
Y: Did we make a decision on having namespaces from other standardisation bodies?
F: Add the module declaration at the top of the xliff declaration. Simply add that any namespace starting with the prefix that we might use would be allowed. That would not mean any radical change.
Y: I suggested that modules should not be in one document with core spec, because they might need to be developed independently.
F: I think it is too late to do this. Having the modules in the same document makes sense.
B: when we talk about adding other modules from other standardisation bodies, they should have a good reference.
Y: the core schema should not have any references to the modules. But there is an issue with module attributes allowed on inline codes. I believe it is no good to just allow other on inline codes.
D: the fs was originally proposed as a core attribute and then moved to the module.
Y: if we find things to be critical to be there, their might as well be core.
As long as you have an explicit namespace reference in the core schmea, then we might have problems with backwards compatibility, because if that namespace changes, then the reference will not work.
F: I do not think that there is an easy solution for that.
Y: there isn’t.
B: do you think that we are approaching to a point?
D: I think that the solution that might have consensus is to remove the explicit references to modules from schema and mandate checking of schema prefixes by PRs.
Y: I agree that it would work.
B: are we in a position to make a proposal?
D: a ballot? We seem to have consensus..
B: Please David, summarise the proposal and propose a ballot. I feel this is rather important so better have a formal ballot.
D: I will summarise it.
D: Replace wildcard “any” with wildcard “other” for all extended elements AND attributes. Add PR for discerning modules from extensions based on XLIFF TC URN prefix. Allow only module attributes on inline elements other than markers. [annotation markers still allow extensions]
B: I second:
Votes for yes: Victor, Helena, Tom, Fredrik, David, Lucia, Kevin, Joachim, Yves, Uwe, Bryan , David Walters.
Abstain [lost connection]: Shirley
D: Report from SC: work done on the survey by Lucia, that lead to the test files proposed by Yves https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00136.html. I ask everybody to participate in the ballot to renew the sc mandate until end of 2014.
D: I am cancelling the SC after this TC to be able to have technical discussion on the fragment identification issue. This will be an informal meeting without quorum. Everybody is welcome to stay in this GoTo meeting to continue the discussion after this meeting formally adjourns.
B: Meeting adjourned.
Owner: Bryan Schnabel
Group: OASIS XML Localisation Interchange File Format (XLIFF) TC
Sharing: This event is shared with the OASIS Open (General Membership), and General Public groups. Public Event Link
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BEGIN:VCALENDAR CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:PUBLISH VERSION:2.0 PRODID:-//Kavi Corporation//NONSGML Kavi Groups//EN X-MS-OLK-FORCEINSPECTOROPEN:TRUE BEGIN:VTIMEZONE TZID:America/New_York BEGIN:STANDARD DTSTART:20001029T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYDAY=-1SU;BYMONTH=10;UNTIL=20061029T060000Z TZNAME:EST TZOFFSETFROM:-0400 TZOFFSETTO:-0500 END:STANDARD BEGIN:STANDARD DTSTART:20071104T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYDAY=1SU;BYMONTH=11 TZNAME:EST TZOFFSETFROM:-0400 TZOFFSETTO:-0500 END:STANDARD BEGIN:DAYLIGHT DTSTART:20000402T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYDAY=1SU;BYMONTH=4;UNTIL=20060402T070000Z TZNAME:EDT TZOFFSETFROM:-0500 TZOFFSETTO:-0400 END:DAYLIGHT BEGIN:DAYLIGHT DTSTART:20070311T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYDAY=2SU;BYMONTH=3 TZNAME:EDT TZOFFSETFROM:-0500 TZOFFSETTO:-0400 END:DAYLIGHT END:VTIMEZONE BEGIN:VEVENT CATEGORIES:MEETING STATUS:CONFIRMED TRANSP:OPAQUE DTSTAMP:20131212T000000Z DTSTART;VALUE=DATE-TIME;TZID=America/New_York:20131203T110000 DTEND;VALUE=DATE-TIME;TZID=America/New_York:20131203T120000 SEQUENCE:2 SUMMARY:XLIFF TC Call DESCRIPTION:\n Please get the dial in information from our private Action Item here:\n\n \n https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/members/action_item.php?action_item_id=3663\n\nAgenda: \n I Administration (0:00 - 0:10)\n\n A. Roll call\n B. Approve previous meeting minutes, 19 November 2013 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00147.html\n C. Test Files from Yves\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00136.html\n\n II XLIFF 2.0 (0:10 - 0:45)\n\n A. Public Review II ended October 5\n\n 1. Public Review Comments are tracked here https://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF%202.0%20Public%20Review%20submitted%20comments%20tracker\n\n 2. Timeline https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/email/archives/201309/msg00029.html\n If PR III: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201310/msg00072.html\n\n B. SOU Tracker https://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF%202.0%20SOU%20Tracker\n\n C. XLIFF 2.0 Items\n\n Review of material issues needed to be resolved before end of December:\n\n 1. Order of core, module, and extended elements TOGETHER with schema ambiguity\n 2. Internal and external referencing https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/email/archives/201311/msg00119.html\n A. Internal core referencing and referencing from modules\n B. External referencing, fragment identification mechanism for MIME type\n 3. CanReorder values and algorithm https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/email/archives/201311/msg00118.html\n 4. Translatability state algorithm, [removing translate from segment, simplification of algorithm and PRs]\n 5. Resegmentation PRs other than impact of one of the above. @Yves?\n\n Recent mailing list issues:\n\n 6. Comments on Fragment Identification (Yves)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201312/msg00000.html\n\n 7. Re-ordering of inline codes (Yves and DavidF)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00154.html\n\n 8. proposed solutions for CSPRD 138 (Unique Particle Attribution) (Tom)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00128.html\n\n 9. URI in XLIFF2 (Yves)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00131.html\n\n 10. Segmentation Modifications (Yves)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00137.html\n\n 11. lowermost (Yves)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00177.html\n\n 12. translate in segment (Yves) [Confirmed]\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201311/msg00139.html\n\n 13. New value for datatype: reqif (Gerhard Schneider)\n https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff-comment/201311/msg00001.html\n\n III XLIFF 2.X? 3.0? (0:45 - 0:50)\n\n 1. Freeze on Feature Tracking wiki? Or queue proposed post 2.0 features there?\n\n 2. Do we have an official path for promoting custom namespace to supported core/module post XLIFF 2.0?\n\n IV Charter (Bryan to update site)\n\n V Sub Committee Report (0:50 - 0:55)\n\n VI Current and New Business (0:55 - )\nGroup: OASIS XML Localisation Interchange File Format (XLIFF) TC\nCreator: Bryan Schnabel URL:https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=36339 UID:https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=36339 BEGIN:VALARM ACTION:DISPLAY DESCRIPTION:REMINDER TRIGGER;RELATED=START:-PT00H15M00S END:VALARM END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR