Re: XLIFF-72 - XLIFF Version 2.1 COS01 Public review comment resolution

[David Filip <david.filip@adaptcentre.ie>]

Great thanks, Steven, that you're looking into this. 

My thinking on this that I tried to explain in the starter email was that we are not seeking to match the CSS capability here. That would be a match for the possible future rendering module and / or XSLT based transforms that are out of the normative scope of XLIFF Version 2.1.

IMHO and AFAIK, we should be fine if XLIFF can roundtrip the <bdo> and <bdi> elements from HTML semantically.

Are you going to be in the call tomorrow to discuss in detail?

Cheers and thanks dF 

On Dec 18, 2017 17:33, "Steven R. Loomis" <srl@icu-project.org> wrote:

David,

 Yes. I was going to look up this information. I have not followed the latest with CSS here. 

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:09 AM, David Filip <david.filip@adaptcentre.ie> wrote:

Hi again, all, especially Fredrik, Steven, Yves, and any other folks with BiDi experience..

We need to resolve this issue in our meeting tomorrow for XLIFF 2.1 to progress timely, either way we choose.. 

I am not quite sure if we can solve this tomorrow without any preliminary discussion on the mailing list..

Cheers and thanks

dF

Dr. David Filip

===========

OASIS XLIFF OMOS TC Chair

OASIS XLIFF TC Secretary, Editor, Liaison Officer

Spokes Research Fellow

ADAPT Centre

KDEG, Trinity College Dublin

Mobile: +420-777-218-122

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:17 PM, David Filip <david.filip@adaptcentre.ie> wrote:

Hi all, especially Fredrik, Steven, Yves, and other folks with BiDi support experience..

this is to start the TC discussion needed to address the directionality support comment from Mihai Nita.

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/XLIFF-72

I have been through the references listed in the comment and noted the following:

A/

Mihai mentions that HTML (5.1) had to introduce <bdi> and <bdo> elements to properly address directionality. Nevertheless, the attributes to set directionality remain "ltr", "rtl", and "auto" ("ltr" and "rtl" only for bdo).

I note that the XLIFF 2.0 and XLIFF 2.1 core directionality provision (srcDir/trgDir -> dir including the current values) is fully expressive WRT the mentioned HTML semantic capabilities.

Namely, <bdi> and <bdo> need to be extracted as any other inline codes and their dir values need to be set respectively.

If the dir values of corresponding codes need adjusted for the corresponding target spans depends on trgDir -> dir and translatability of the spans in question. The fully fledged solution SHOULD involve the the ITSM based inline lang attribute but will successfully roundtrip with core only methods.

For A/ I conclude that no action is required within XLIFF Version 2.1 COS01 scope.

@All

Any thoughts?

B/

Further Mihai informs us of the BiDi handling developments in CSS. 

For B/ I don't think that this part of a problem that XLIFF Version 2.1 should address..

@All

Any thoughts?

In summary,

although I don't think that we should make any changes to XLIFF Version 2.1 in response to the issue https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/XLIFF-72,

I do believe that there are some actions WRT directionality handling that the TC should take in the near future:

1)

Through our GALA TAPICC Liaison:

Ask TAPICC T 1/ WG 3 to include <bdi> and <bdo> extraction in its XLIFF extraction best practice recommendation.

2)

Include the requirement for directionality rendering within the requested new feature for XLIFF 2.2 the "XLIFF rendering module".

@Bryan, would you please set up out TC wiki XLIFF 2.2 requirements gathering? Ideally by 5th Dec?

If we decide to address rendering for XLIFF 2.2 and I am strongly in favor, then Mihai's comments will be in scope for XLIFF 2.2 and we should indeed follow the BiDi handling developments in CSS and XSLT. The rendering module should probably include at least informational styling resources in the form of xslt and/or CSS artifacts.

Cheers and thanks for your attention

dF

Dr. David Filip

===========

OASIS XLIFF OMOS TC Chair

OASIS XLIFF TC Secretary, Editor, Liaison Officer

Moravia Research Fellow

ADAPT Centre

KDEG, Trinity College Dublin

Mobile: +420-777-218-122