RE: [xri] RE: Single delegation character

[Peter C Davis <peter.davis@neustar.biz>]

I think of the distinction (highly simplified) as:

a slash denotes a resource in the context of an authority (@idc/fen)
while the "delegation char" is a resource authority.

subtle but important distinction.

--- peterd

On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 01:46, Loren West wrote:
> You're right, the dot means delegation in the authority section. 
> I was referring to your statement about the slash having specific
> meaning (you said it's the stuff @idcommons knows about fen).
> 
> =Loren 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fen Labalme [mailto:fen@idcommons.org] 
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 6:25 PM
> To: Loren West
> Cc: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Single delegation character
> 
> 
> I don't believe I have.  In the authority section (before the first 
> forward slash) dot means delegation.  Am I not correct?
> 
> Loren West wrote:
> > I understand that you have attached additional semantics to 
> > the identifiers beyond the scope of the XRI TC, and it's why
> > you're reluctant to ask users if they prefer a syntax
> > that they may be more familiar with.
> > 
> > Another example of the problems associated with encoding
> > semantics into identifiers.  
> > 
> > One could argue that XRI is here because of the
> > semantics embedded within existing identifier systems,
> > and it's why I'm fairly sensitive about keeping them to
> > an absolute minimum within the XRI TC.
> > 
> > =Loren
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fen Labalme [mailto:fen@idcommons.org] 
> > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:12 PM
> > To: Loren West
> > Cc: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Single delegation character
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, I agree that @idcommons/fen and @idcommons*fen could be defined to 
> > be equivalent, but we have a real reason that we want then to be 
> > different.  The ability to explicitly state that @idcommons*fen is an 
> > authority delegated to fen and @idcommons/fen is stuff @idcommons knows 
> > about fen enables a useful differentiation.
> > 
> > This still leaves the door open for some communities to define that 
> > e.g., @epok/loren defines an authority loren delegated by epok, but 
> > that's a choice up to the community.  I'd rather not make it in the
> syntax.
> > 
> > Fen
> > 
> > Loren West wrote:
> > 
> >>Actually, @idcommons/fen is anything @idcommons wants it to 
> >>be - including a delegation to a different endpoint that
> >>fen has control over.
> >>
> >>It could work the same as @idcommons*fen.  I believe a user 
> >>given this option will choose it over bang or splat, and
> >>it would be a shame if you're conducting a survey to leave
> >>it out.
> >>
> >>The XRI specification says nothing about what @idcommons/fen
> >>means, and very little about what @idcommons*fen means
> >>other than it's a delegated means of obtaining an endpoint.
> >>
> >>It specifically excludes the concept of identity, or what
> >>one identity knows about another identity, or who owns what,
> >>or where control lies. 
> >>
> >>=Loren
> >>@idcommons*Loren
> >>@idcommons/Loren
> >>
> >>The above examples may point to 3 different places, or to
> >>the same place.  There isn't any expression that I have
> >>control of any of these places.
> >>
> >>I believe that as soon as you express that information within
> >>an identifier you get yourself into trouble.  It's complex
> >>information, and changes at a different rate than the
> >>identifier (which means it de-stabilizes the identifier
> >>when it changes).
> >>
> >>It's meta-data about the resource pointed to by the
> >>identifier, and outside the scope of this TC.
> >>
> >>=Loren
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Fen Labalme [mailto:fen@idcommons.org] 
> >>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:17 PM
> >>To: Loren West
> >>Cc: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Single delegation character
> >>
> >>
> >>Loren West wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Fen - while you're at it, you should try asking if they prefer
> >>>@idcommons/fen to either of the above.  That works regardless
> >>>of the change to the spec (if any).
> >>
> >>
> >>No, Loren - it doesn't work.  Unless we make / the delegation character 
> >>( which I think would be a very bad idea).  @idcommons/fen is what 
> >>idcommons authority knows about fen, as opposed to @idcommons!fen in 
> >>which idcommons delegates to the fen authority, which is what we want.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I prefer bang over splat, and admit to printing a "bang name"
> >>>on my business card in the past.
> >>
> >>
> >>Yeah, I had one, too.  1982 or so.  I kinda like bang, too, but I'm a 
> >>geek.  I'm looking forward to this weekend (survey) to kind out what 
> >>normal people think.
> >>
> >>=Fen
> >>
> > 
> > 
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> >
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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