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________________________________ From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net] Sent: Wed 11/2/2005 3:21 PM To: Barnhill William; xri@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Significance of trailing delimiters (was RE: = Describing vs Described problem) Bill, you may be right here, but according to the IRI spec for fragments = (which we inherited), a fragment is: ifragment =3D *( ipchar / "/" / "?" ) Thus "?" is a valid fragment char. Thus for "xri://@foo*bar#?", the = fragment would parse to "?" =20 The other way around is not true, i.e., # is not a legit query char, so = "xri://@foo*bar?#" would parse as you expect. =20 But for fragments it's looser. =20 (Don't shoot me, I didn't write the IRI (or URI) spec!) =20 =3DDrummond=20 =20 ________________________________ From: Barnhill William [mailto:barnhill_william@bah.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:05 PM To: Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [xri] RE: Significance of trailing delimiters (was RE: = Describing vs Described problem) =20 Agreed, 99.9%. On: "xri://@foo*bar#?", where the ? may be interpreted as a fragment = value). I thought that this would always be parsed as: xri type: absolute, hierarchial Global context: "@" authority sub-segments: "foo*bar" path: "/" fragment: "" querystring: "" =20 I'd be against having it be possible for the last two to instead be: fragment: "?" querystring: "" Would it come up a lot, sincerely doubt it. Would it introduce = implementation ambiguity where not needed, IMHO yes, definitely. But = I'll defer to the more XRI experienced. =3DBill.Barnhill =20 ________________________________ From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net] Sent: Wed 11/2/2005 2:53 PM To: Barnhill William; xri@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Significance of trailing delimiters (was RE: Describing vs = Described problem) Bill, I renamed this thread again since you bring up a very precise = issue that I believe needs to be addressed in the context of the XRI = resolution spec. =20 I would propose that the question about the signficance of a single = trailing delimiter is that *from the standpoint of XRI resolution* there = is no difference. =20 In other words, because there is no addition segment or subsegment to = resolve, there is no additional resource identified, and thus no affect = on resolution. =20 To be specific, this would mean that all of the following would return = the same XRID from the same authority: =20 xri:@foo*bar xri:@foo*bar/ xri:@foo*bar? xri:@foo*bar# =20 Note that I specifically limited this proposal to a single trailing = delimiter. I don't think this rule can be applied when there is more = than one trailing delimiter, for the reason that second delimiter may = carry in fact define either: a) an explicit empty subsegment (e.g., = "xri://@foo*bar//"), or b) a valid character in the XRI component type = (e.g., "xri://@foo*bar#?", where the ? may be interpreted as a fragment = value). =20 Again, this is just a proposal, on a subject that I think does need to = be clarified in Res CD02. =20 =3DDrummond=20 =20 ________________________________ From: Barnhill William [mailto:barnhill_william@bah.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:08 AM To: Wachob, Gabe; Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Describing vs Described problem (was Compromise = Conceptualization Towards CD-02) =20 Gabe,=20 =20 Ok, thanks. I can see your point about a lot of this stuff being out of = scope of the XRI, and am totally comfortable with implementers deciding = and seeing what works. I had thought some of these things (like XRI = resolution into the XRID doc, and a standard $ word for top level = metadata) would be XRI scope, and my apologies for getting confused. I = agree on picking one conceptual model and moving on. As I understand the = two models I think either way will work, as long as everyone is on the = same page and it's clearly spelled out in the spec. I've had a view of = the authority segment being a reference to the controller of the data = (i.e authority) and the path being a controller specific address into = the controlled data, but I can see the case for the authority segment = representing a resource that is a resource of type XRID publisher and of = type xyz.=20 =20 One other question, and if out of scope, or done to death already, then = feel free to respond offline: =20 =20 Given xri://@foo*bar, does that have an implicit path of / (making it = really xri://@foo*bar/), and does that make it different than @foo*bar, = as previously discussed? I'd think the idea of an implicit path of / if = no path specified would be a good thing, no? On the same note is it = within XRI scope and is it specified what the difference, if any, is = between the following:=20 =20 xri://@foo*bar/baz xri://@foo*bar/baz#=20 xri://@foo*bar/baz?=20 xri://@foo*bar/baz#? xri://@foo*bar/#=20 xri://@foo*bar/?=20 xri://@foo*bar/#? Please let me know if any of the above are not valid XRIs. By the = difference I mean MUST they all resolve to the same resource. I realize = that most of the above are farsical and not likely to be encountered, = but I can see such XRIs being created, especially by a service provider = that uses dynamic XRIs that it creates from state information. =20 On the subject of cliches (and implementers), "Plans generally survive = for five minutes after the battle starts, if that" (I think Patton was = source, but not sure). =20 Thanks, =3DBill.Barnhill ________________________________ From: Wachob, Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com] Sent: Wed 11/2/2005 1:18 PM To: Barnhill William; Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [xri] RE: Describing vs Described problem (was Compromise = Conceptualization Towards CD-02) Bill- =20 Thanks for asking these questions! =20 BUT *I'M* getting confused. There's a lot here that I don't think the = XRI TC needs to speak to.=20 =20 I think generally the answer is that you can do all of the things you = propose, Bill, and we (the XRI TC) shouldn't really care.=20 May not be desirable even if possible, as if an XRI authority is = strictly designed to signify an extensible and re-assignable name for a = network endpoint (aka network location), then it doesn't signify the = data about the resource at that network location, right? =20 Well, I thought the pushback to my reconceptualization was (well, = Drummond agreed, at least) that an XRI authority can identify *anything* = (in essence, an XRI authority is just a degenerate XRI in that sense). = It resolves into an XRID that describes possibly the resource identified = by the authority, as well as services (such as authority subsegment = resolution) hosted on behalf of that authority by some network endpoint. = So Drummond's response to you confuses me since it seems to be more in = line with my reconceptualization than the pushback. =20 I actually don't care too much at this point - we need to decide and = move on.=20 =20 I don't know if this answers your question about "Does there currently = exist a method for an XRI that links into the containing document?" Can = you explain this question in more detail? =20 Consider an XRID with some RDF metadata about the XRID itself embedded = somewhere within the XRID (dc:author for example). If I want an XRI that = can access that data I either need to know beforehand how that data is = stored within the XRI and parse it out when I get the XRID (doable, but = basically hard coded), or I need an XRI authority subsegment or XRI = local path + inline resolution spec, that can reference this embedded = data, for example xri://@foo*bar/(+about). Using the XRI method I don't = care whether the data is embedded, or at some network endpoint,right? So = that would seem the best bet, but is that (1) allowable, (2) possible = within current bounds of specs.=20 =20 I think all of this is out of scope of the XRI resolution spec. I think = people will use XRIs in different ways and we'll find out with use what = works best. In fact, the XDI TC is proposing one way to use XRIs that = answers many of these questions and I think other efforts at the same = layer of XDI will be seen.=20 =20 <cliches> Let a thousand flowers bloom. Throw some spaghetti on the wall and see = what sticks. Survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive. Veni = vidi vici.=20 </cliches> =20 I wish I could always make my point by throwing out a list of cliches... =20 -Gabe =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5DFEF.83896A77 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1">=0A= <html = = = >=0A= =0A= <head>=0A= =0A= <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">=0A= =0A= <title>RE: Describing vs Described problem (was Compromise = Conceptualization=0A= Towards CD-02)</title>=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= <style>=0A= <!--=0A= font-face {=0A= FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma=0A= }=0A= font-face=0A= {font-family:Tahoma;}=0A= =0A= =0A= font-face=0A= {font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";}=0A= font-face=0A= {font-family:Tahoma;}=0A= font-face=0A= {font-family:"\@Arial Unicode MS";}=0A= =0A= p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A= {margin:0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New 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font-size:10.0pt;=0A= font-family:Arial;=0A= font-style:italic;}=0A= p.quote00, li.quote00, div.quote00=0A= {margin-top:0pt;=0A= margin-right:36.0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:6.0pt;=0A= margin-left:36.0pt;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Times New Roman";=0A= font-style:italic;}=0A= p.wiki00, li.wiki00, div.wiki00=0A= {margin:0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:.0001pt;=0A= font-size:10.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Courier New";}=0A= p.graphic00, li.graphic00, div.graphic00=0A= {margin-top:0pt;=0A= margin-right:0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:6.0pt;=0A= margin-left:0pt;=0A= text-align:center;=0A= font-size:10.0pt;=0A= font-family:Arial;=0A= font-style:italic;}=0A= span.emailstyle27=0A= {font-family:Arial;=0A= color:navy;}=0A= span.emailstyle31=0A= {font-family:Arial;=0A= color:navy;}=0A= span.EmailStyle35=0A= {=0A= font-family:Arial;=0A= color:navy;}=0A= p.ABNF, li.ABNF, div.ABNF=0A= {margin-top:12.0pt;=0A= margin-right:18.0pt;=0A= margin-bottom:12.0pt;=0A= margin-left:18.0pt;=0A= background:#FFFF99;=0A= border:none;=0A= padding:0pt;=0A= font-size:9.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Courier New";}=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= div.Section1=0A= {page:Section1;}=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ol=0A= {margin-bottom:0pt;}=0A= ul=0A= {margin-bottom:0pt;}=0A= -->=0A= </style>=0A= =0A= </head>=0A= =0A= <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>=0A= <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText77949 dir=3Dltr>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Fair enough. = Guess I'm guilty =0A= of trying to close the barn door after the horses have gone. = </FONT></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>From the = looks of it though =0A= that means that if there is a fragment then there can't be a query = string, which =0A= seems reasonable, if arbitrary.</FONT></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For example =0A= xri://@foo*bar#baz?action=3Dbot would not parse, as the fragment would = be =0A= baz?action and =3Dbot would not be consumable. </FONT></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>=3DBill.Barnhill</FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A= <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Drummond Reed =0A= [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wed 11/2/2005 3:21 =0A= PM<BR><B>To:</B> Barnhill William; = xri@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =0A= RE: [xri] RE: Significance of trailing delimiters (was RE: Describing vs =0A= Described problem)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV class=3DSection1>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill, you may = be right =0A= here, but according to the IRI spec for fragments (which we inherited), = a =0A= fragment is:</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <DIV =0A= style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0pt; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; BACKGROUND: #ffff99; PADDING-BOTTOM: = 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 18pt; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt dashed; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 18pt; PADDING-TOP: 0pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">=0A= <P class=3DABNF =0A= style=3D"BACKGROUND: #ffff99; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0pt; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0pt"><FONT =0A= face=3D"Courier New" size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> =0A= ifragment =3D *( ipchar = / "/" / =0A= "?" )</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thus "?" is a = valid =0A= fragment char. Thus for "xri://@foo*bar#?", the fragment would parse to =0A= "?"</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The other way = around is =0A= not true, i.e., # is not a legit query char, so "xri://@foo*bar?#" would = parse =0A= as you expect.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">But for = fragments it's =0A= looser.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(Don't shoot = me, I =0A= didn't write the IRI (or URI) spec!)</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=3DDrummond =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =0A= face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A= </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT =0A= face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma"> Barnhill =0A= William [mailto:barnhill_william@bah.com] <BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, November 02, = 2005 12:05 =0A= PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Drummond Reed; =0A= xri@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [xri] RE: Significance = of trailing =0A= delimiters (was RE: Describing vs Described = problem)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText4018>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Agreed, =0A= 99.9%.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On: </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = color=3Dnavy =0A= size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">"xri://@foo*bar#?", =0A= where the ? may be interpreted as a fragment = value).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I thought = that this =0A= would always be parsed as:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">xri type: = absolute, =0A= hierarchial</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Global = context: =0A= "@"</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">authority = sub-segments: =0A= "foo*bar"</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">path: =0A= "/"</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">fragment: =0A= ""</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">querystring: =0A= ""</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'd be against having it be possible for the = last two to =0A= instead be:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">fragment: =0A= "?"</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">querystring: =0A= ""</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Would it come up a lot, sincerely doubt = it. Would it =0A= introduce implementation ambiguity where not needed, IMHO yes, = definitely. But =0A= I'll defer to the more XRI = experienced.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A= <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=3DBill.Barnhill</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =0A= face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A= </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT = face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT =0A= face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma"> Drummond =0A= Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed 11/2/2005 2:53 = PM<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Barnhill William; =0A= xri@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Significance of trailing =0A= delimiters (was RE: Describing vs Described = problem)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill, I = renamed this =0A= thread again since you bring up a very precise issue that I believe = needs to be =0A= addressed in the context of the XRI resolution spec.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would = propose that =0A= the question about the signficance of a single trailing delimiter is = that =0A= *<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">from the standpoint of XRI =0A= resolution</SPAN></B>* there is no difference.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In other = words, because =0A= there is no addition segment or subsegment to resolve, there is no = additional =0A= resource identified, and thus no affect on resolution.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To be = specific, this =0A= would mean that all of the following would return the same XRID from the = same =0A= authority:</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =0A= xri:@foo*bar</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =0A= xri:@foo*bar/</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =0A= xri:@foo*bar?</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =0A= xri:@foo*bar#</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Note that I =0A= specifically limited this proposal to a single trailing delimiter. I = don't think =0A= this rule can be applied when there is more than one trailing delimiter, = for the =0A= reason that second delimiter may carry in fact define either: a) an = explicit =0A= empty subsegment (e.g., "xri://@foo*bar//"), or b) a valid character in = the XRI =0A= component type (e.g., "xri://@foo*bar#?", where the ? may be interpreted = as a =0A= fragment value).</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Again, this = is just a =0A= proposal, on a subject that I think does need to be clarified in Res =0A= CD02.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=3DDrummond =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =0A= face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A= </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT =0A= face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma"> Barnhill =0A= William [mailto:barnhill_william@bah.com] <BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, November 02, = 2005 11:08 =0A= AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Wachob, Gabe; = Drummond =0A= Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [xri] RE: Describing = vs =0A= Described problem (was Compromise Conceptualization Towards =0A= CD-02)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText10794>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Gabe, =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ok, = thanks. I =0A= can see your point about a lot of this stuff being out of scope of the = XRI, and =0A= am totally comfortable with implementers deciding and seeing what works. = I had =0A= thought some of these things (like XRI resolution into the XRID doc, and = a =0A= standard $ word for top level metadata) would be XRI scope, and my = apologies for =0A= getting confused. I agree on picking one conceptual model and moving on. = As I =0A= understand the two models I think either way will work, as long as = everyone is =0A= on the same page and it's clearly spelled out in the spec. I've = had a view =0A= of the authority segment being a reference to = the controller of =0A= the data (i.e authority) and the path being a controller specific = address into =0A= the controlled data, but I can see the case for the authority = segment =0A= representing a resource that is a resource of type XRID =0A= publisher and of type xyz. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One other question, and if = out of =0A= scope, or done to death already, then feel free = to respond =0A= offline: </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Given xri://@foo*bar, does = that have =0A= an implicit path of / (making it really xri://@foo*bar/), and does that = make it =0A= different than @foo*bar, as previously discussed? I'd think the idea of = an =0A= implicit path of / if no path specified would be a good thing, no? On = the same =0A= note is it within XRI scope and is it specified what the difference, if = any, is =0A= between the following: </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= xri://@foo*bar/baz</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= xri://@foo*bar/baz# </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= xri://@foo*bar/baz? </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= xri://@foo*bar/baz#?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> = xri://@foo*bar/# =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> = xri://@foo*bar/? =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= xri://@foo*bar/#?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please let me know if any = of the =0A= above are not valid XRIs. By the difference I mean MUST they all resolve = to the =0A= same resource. I realize that most of the above are farsical and not = likely to =0A= be encountered, but I can see such XRIs being created, especially by a = service =0A= provider that uses dynamic XRIs that it creates from state =0A= information.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On the subject of cliches (and implementers), = "Plans =0A= generally survive for five minutes after the battle starts, if that" (I = think =0A= Patton was source, but not sure).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=3DBill.Barnhill</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =0A= face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A= </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT = face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT =0A= face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma"> Wachob, =0A= Gabe [mailto:gwachob@visa.com]<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed 11/2/2005 1:18 = PM<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Barnhill William; Drummond = Reed; =0A= xri@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [xri] RE: Describing = vs =0A= Described problem (was Compromise Conceptualization Towards =0A= CD-02)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Bill-</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for = asking these =0A= questions!</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">BUT *I'M* = getting =0A= confused. There's a lot here that I don't think the XRI TC needs to = speak to. =0A= </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think = generally the =0A= answer is that you can do all of the things you propose, Bill, and we = (the XRI =0A= TC) shouldn't really care. </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <BLOCKQUOTE =0A= style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0pt; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0pt 5pt = 2.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: = medium none">=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> May not be desirable even if = possible, as if an =0A= XRI authority is strictly designed to signify an extensible and = re-assignable =0A= name for a network endpoint (aka network location), then it doesn't = signify =0A= the data about the resource at that network location, =0A= right? </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Well, I = thought the =0A= pushback to my reconceptualization was (well, Drummond agreed, at =0A= least) that an XRI authority can identify *anything* (in essence, = an XRI =0A= authority is just a degenerate XRI in that sense). It resolves into an = XRID that =0A= describes possibly the resource identified by the authority, as well as = services =0A= (such as authority subsegment resolution) hosted on behalf of that = authority by =0A= some network endpoint. So Drummond's response to you confuses me since = it seems =0A= to be more in line with my reconceptualization than the =0A= pushback.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I actually = don't care =0A= too much at this point - we need to decide and move on. = </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <BLOCKQUOTE =0A= style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0pt; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0pt 5pt = 2.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: = medium none">=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't = know if this =0A= answers your question about "</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Does there currently exist a method for an = XRI that =0A= links into the containing document?" Can you explain this question in = more =0A= detail?</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Consider an XRID with some RDF metadata = about the XRID =0A= itself embedded somewhere within the XRID (dc:author for example). If = I want =0A= an XRI that can access that data I either need to know beforehand how = that =0A= data is stored within the XRI and parse it out when I get the XRID = (doable, =0A= but basically hard coded), or I need an XRI authority subsegment or = XRI local =0A= path + inline resolution spec, that can reference this embedded data, = for =0A= example xri://@foo*bar/(+about). Using the XRI method I don't care = whether the =0A= data is embedded, or at some network endpoint,right? So that would = seem the =0A= best bet, but is that (1) allowable, (2) possible within current = bounds of =0A= specs.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think all = of =0A= this is out of scope of the XRI resolution spec. I think people = will use =0A= XRIs in different ways and we'll find out with use what works best. In = fact, the =0A= XDI TC is proposing one way to use XRIs that answers many of these = questions =0A= and I think other efforts at the same layer of XDI will be =0A= seen. </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><cliches></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Let a = thousand flowers =0A= bloom. Throw some spaghetti on the wall and see what = sticks. Survival of =0A= the fittest. Only the strong survive. Veni vidi vici. = </SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"></cliches></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I wish I = could always =0A= make my point by throwing out a list of cliches...</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =0A= -Gabe</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>=0A= <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =0A= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=0A= =0A= </body>=0A= =0A= </html>=0A= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5DFEF.83896A77--
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