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Subject: RE: [xdi] notifications for XDI? (was Re: prototype and consequent feedback on XDI primitive)


Dear Drummond and Andy,

thanks for your replies. It seems that you both got perfectly the point!
And that we agree that this mechanism is useful and perhaps a request for specifications may fit (e.g. describe the subscription/notification mechanism, interface, error/fault messages, etc. - so called "abstract protocol", regardless it will be implemented using RSS or others - we offer to do this).
If I've understood correct, basically Andy says: we can leave notification as a "standard" plugin for XDI servers. I'm wondering if this "standard" plugins are reflected "officially" in the XDI specs or are let to any implementation. I think it depends on how "standard" they'll be :-)
However, my idea is that if we recognize a well defined pattern of interactions between the XDI server and the client, as this seems the case, we should write something about it to provide guidelines for implementation... Andy, what's your opinion about it?

Thanks in advance,
Giovanni

At 16.54 30/04/2007, andy.dale@ootao.com wrote:
I think we DO need to specify a robust 'trigger' mechanism (which we have done in our implementation). These triggers can trigger the execution of any custom code, on either get or set traversals. They can be triggered at any specific point in the get or the set operations (before set, after set, etc...). To build a plugin that implements the notification protocol you describe is then trivial, as is building any other protocol or domain specific functionality.  We are building several 'standard' plugins that will be part of every server distribution, a notification one could be added to the set.

With such a generic solution I don't see why the XDI TC would want to take on the additional work of tightly binding itself to any other specific spec or protocol.

All the best,

Andy Dale
ooTao, Inc.

Phone: 877-213-7935
Fax: 877-213-7935

i-name: =Andy.Dale
http://xri.net/=andy.dale

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"Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@cordance.net>

04/29/2007 09:23 PM
To
"'Giovanni Bartolomeo'" <giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it>, <xri@lists.oasis-open.org>, <xdi@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
<steven.churchill@ootao.com>, <andy.dale@ootao.com>
Subject
RE: [xdi] notifications for XDI? (was Re: prototype and consequent  feedback on XDI primitive)




Giovanni,
 
I apologize for the long delay in replying – I was at the OASIS Symposium the week before last and am still catching up on lists.
 
See [=Drummond] inline.
 



From: Giovanni Bartolomeo [ mailto:giovanni.bartolomeo@uniroma2.it]
Sent:
Friday, April 13, 2007 9:26 AM
To:
xri@lists.oasis-open.org; xdi@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc:
steven.churchill@ootao.com; andy.dale@ootao.com
Subject:
[xdi] notifications for XDI? (was Re: prototype and consequent feedback on XDI primitive)

 
Dear All,

reading Andy's reply I realized to haven't been so clear with my use case; I'm sorry for this, I'll try again to better explain this idea.

The issue we're facing is that there should be some cases in which the terminal or the device running the CLIENT side of the XDI framework might be needed of be notified whenever certain data change. This is quite common in telecommunications environments.

 
[=Drummond] Yes, I agree with this use case.
 

For example, OMA XDM (
http://www.openmobilealliance.org/release_program/docs/XDM/V1_0-20060612-A/OMA-TS-XDM_Core-V1_0-20060612-A.pdf )

"defines the common protocol for access and manipulation of XML documents by authorized principals. This specification reuses the IETF XML Configuration Access Protocol (XCAP).
XCAP defines:
A convention for describing elements and attributes of an XML document as a HTTP resource, i.e., accessible via an
HTTP URI
A technique for using HTTP GET, PUT and DELETE methods for various document manipulation operations (e.g.,
retrieving/adding/deleting elements/attributes, etc.)
The concept and structure of an XCAP Application Usage by which service or enabler specific documents can be
described
A default authorization policy for accessing and manipulating documents"

sounds familiar? Basically XDM/XCAP is roughly similar to XDI/XRI, but with many limitations
- it can handle just XML documents
- it doesn't define an abstract protocol and binding mechanisms
- it doesn't keep the concept of data link between documents
- ...

Though so "primitive" compared to XDI/XRI, it's the OMA standard to be used in telco!!!

but the interesting thing is that:

"This specification also defines a technique by which changes to such XML documents can be conveyed to an XCAP CLIENT. This reuses an IETF-defined SIP event package by which an XDM Client subscribes to changes to all documents that it owns."

this feature (subscription/notification) is instead missing in XDI! Why we don't think at an extension of the current spec to support it?


Two issues to be discussed are:
- usefulness (what you think?)

 
[=Drummond] I have long felt that XDI notifications are very useful; it has always my assumption we would specify them.

- feasibility and concrete bindings (do we need to use SIP as a concrete binding for this purpose? Maybe we can rely on the RSS protocol? Etc.)

 
[=Drummond] This is what needs the most discussion. Both SIP and RSS have something to offer.


(It is even trivial to say that in case of positive reactions we'll be more than happy to take the task of writing a (more or less formal) document to propose such an extension!)

 
[=Drummond] That would be most welcome. As the minutes of the XRI/XDI TC meeting in San Diego indicated, we are about to formally update the XDI TC charter. I’ll be sending more email about that this week. Once we’ve done that and have the rest of the XRI 2.x Working Drafts ready, I’d really like to move forward rapidly with drafting the XDI 1.0 specs.
 
[=Drummond] Are you thinking that this would need to be a separate specification, or included under the XDI Protocols and Bindings specification as listed on http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/CharterRevision02 ?


Your comments will be welcome!!! (unfortunately I'll be out of office next week, so time of reaction will be not elevated; however, I've just given the kick-off :-)

[=Drummond] And I will be out of the office most of this coming week at the Higgins f2f in Austin, but I’ll be online there, and will be sending out XRI/XDI TC messages in preparation for our regular telecon this coming Thursday.
 
Best,
 
=Drummond


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