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Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec


Just a recommendation:

I don't think it would be a mistake to keep one eye on details of the
OASIS Naming Guidelines as the TC deliberates about such things
as construction of a spec title, use of version/revision identifiers,
namespace URI considerations, (required) use of both instance
(version-specific) and generic (version-agnostic) URIs for schemas
as well as prose specs, etc.  And also, on the TC Process document.

Examples:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV08.html#NamespaceDesign
(includes 'change policies for XML namespaces')

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#title

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#version

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#specURIs

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#declaredNamespace
(namespace document, if you use HTTP scheme NS URI)

http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#latestVersionURIs-schemas
"Latest Version" URIs for Schemas, WSDLs, RDDLs, and Other Specification Components

TC Prosess 2.18
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06-19.php#specQuality

A specification may be composed of any number of files of
different types, though any such multi-part specification
must have a single specification name and version number.
Irrespective of the number and status of the constituent
parts, the specification as a whole must be approved by a
single TC ballot. Any change made to a specification
requires a new version or revision number...

[NB Mary is out of the office for this week]

-rcc

Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783


On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Gabe Wachob wrote:

> I'd be happy with calling it XRD 1.0 if we use a dated namespace so people 
> don't have *any* confusion about the fact that this is the "most current" 
> spec relative to XRI...
>
> Its also a sort of emerging best practice for namespaces from the W3C, 
> afaict.
>
> And of course, I'm happy with an HTTP namespace ;)
>
> I'm happy with dropping version - that was there mostly to allow backwards 
> compatibility - the idea being that a future interpreter could pick up an 
> older XML document and understand what it was looking at. This would leave us 
> as spec writers free to add new elements in a "backwards compatible" manner, 
> while allowing the documen to give hints to "up to date" implementations what 
> level the spec was at. The idea was that you would be able to rev the schema 
> much slower than the spec interpreting it.
>
>    -Gabe
>
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav wrote:
>
>> My vote is to:
>> 
>> Name the spec XRD 1.0
>> Drop the ?version? attribute
>> Drop the proposal to have multiple ?profiles? (i.e. XRDS-Simple)
>> Use an HTTP namespace under the OASIS domain with version 1.0. If people 
>> find this confusing, I would be ok with a dated namespace. As a last 
>> resort, I would support using a version 3.0 namespace with an explanation 
>> why the spec itself is version 1.0.
>> 
>> Here is why:
>> 
>> 
>> I think the real question here is what to do with the ?version? attribute. 
>> In many ways, it is very similar to the ?profile? attribute proposed 
>> earlier to support the XRDS-Simple use case. I am ?1 on both and here is 
>> why. My understanding of the ?version? attribute is that it refers only to 
>> the resolver workflow, not to the schema which is independently versioned 
>> via an XML namespace.
>> 
>> I cannot think of use cases where the schema does not change at all, but 
>> the meaning of the document does. The most likely scenario to happen is 
>> adding elements via XML namespace import, and in that case, the resolver 
>> will need to take those new additions into account (as they may change the 
>> meaning of the document). I believe that the schema itself is more than 
>> just a format but also tightly linked to its meaning. If we want to change 
>> the meaning but not the schema, we should still change the XML namespace. 
>> Either way, existing parsers will need to change so why does it matter what 
>> breaks them (different version of different namespace).
>> 
>> In addition, I have changed my views on the ?profile? attribute. I think at 
>> this point the only element which might be considered ?advance? is <Ref> 
>> and it is an important requirement for any delegation of metadata. The only 
>> other issue raised by developers was the ?priority? attribute but again, it 
>> is too important to remove.
>> 
>> If we remove these two attributes, we are left with a single unified schema 
>> which will get a new namespace. Since this new namespace will be an HTTP 
>> URI, I do not think it matters if it is version 1.0 or dated. It will be 
>> sufficiently different form the XRI namespace (which more people didn?t 
>> understand) and from the version attribute value. Because of that I lean 
>> more towards a version 1.0 in the namespace than a date, but will take a 
>> date over version 3.0.
>> 
>> The spec itself should be XRD 1.0 either way, not matter what namespace we 
>> end up using (and assuming we are dropping the ?version? attribute). It is 
>> better to version it 1.0 and put a comment why the namespace has 3.0 in it, 
>> than make everything 3.0...
>> 
>> EHL
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/23/08 11:18 PM, "Drummond Reed" <drummond.reed@cordance.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Nat, RE your [Q1], I don't think OASIS mandates how schemas are versioned.
>> That's up to individual TCs (I'm trusting Mary or Robin will correct me if
>> I'm wrong.]
>> 
>> RE your [Q2], I think that it is also up to us when we make a version
>> change. Changing the schema would seem to be one of the conditions under
>> which we would definitely make a version change, but it does seem like 
>> other
>> spec changes could also trigger a version change (for example, as you
>> mentioned, verification rules).
>> 
>> Suggestion: since much of this seems to hinge around whether the XRD schema
>> retains a version attribute, why don't selector see if we can decide that
>> first.
>> 
>> 1) Who has strong feelings one way or another about whether the XRD schema
>> should have a version attribute?
>> 
>> 2) If so, should the use of the version attribute be required?
>> 
>> 3) If there is a version attribute, who has strong feeling about it being
>> numeric (as it currently is in XRI Resolution 2.0)? Or a date value?
>> 
>> =Drummond
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Nat Sakimura [mailto:n-sakimura@nri.co.jp]
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:11 AM
>>> To: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org; OASIS XRI TC
>>> Cc: Gabe Wachob; Drummond Reed; Eran Hammer-Lahav; sakimura@spmd.nri.co.jp
>>> Subject: Re: [xri] RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
>>> 
>>> So, to sum it up, there has been several information points/resonings
>>> available around versions:
>>> 
>>> (1) Since it is a new spec, it shoud start from 1.0. Otherwise people
>>> start looking for 1.0.
>>> (2) Since there is <XRD version="2.0" xmlns="xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)"> in
>>> XRDS right now.
>>>       using 1.0 may confuse people. Perhaps we should use 3.0.
>>> (3) However, if version attribute goes away, this is of less concern.
>>>       Version of the schema can be represented in xmlns, and it will be
>>> a new
>>>       http based version string possibly starting from 1.0 or dates in
>>> W3C style.
>>>       Besides, schema version and spec version can be separate.
>>> (4) OASIS rule mandates the specs to be versioned numerically.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple of questions at this point.
>>> 
>>> [Q1] Is the OASIS versioning rule on the spec also applicable to the
>>> schema contained in the spec?
>>> [Q2] Is there a case where we want to preserve "version" attribute
>>> separate from the schema version?
>>>    e.g., when verification rule is changed etc., should it always
>>> require the schema version change as well?
>>> 
>>> If the answer to [Q1] is no, then we can use date based name space in
>>> <XRD ... > and cause
>>> less confusion even if we adopt XRD 1.0. If the answer is "Yes", then I
>>> would be more inclined to "3.0".
>>> 
>>> For [Q2], I am yet to come up with a case. If any of you could think of
>>> it, please let me know.
>>> 
>>> =nat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Gabe Wachob wrote:
>>> > Lets call it XRD 7!
>>> >
>>> >     -Gabe
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Drummond Reed
>>> > <drummond.reed@cordance.net <mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >     Mary McRae, our TC admin, clarified that OASIS specs must use a
>>> >     numeric
>>> >     version identifier (see thread below).
>>> >
>>> >     So, mates, now we really do have to decide between "XRD 1.0" and
>>> >     "XRD 3.0".
>>> >
>>> >     A suggestion: if, as we discussed on Thursday's call, the new XRD
>>> >     spec will
>>> >     no longer have a "ver" attribute on the XRD element, then the
>>> >     issue of the
>>> >     previous version attribute value being "2.0" (as specified in XRI
>>> >     Resolution
>>> >     2.0) will go away. In that case I think it makes sense to call the
>>> >     spec "XRD
>>> >     1.0" because as Eran pointed out, there's never been a spec from
>>> >     the TC
>>> >     called "XRD" before.
>>> >
>>> >     OTOH, if the decision is that the ver attribute on XRD element
>>> >     should stay,
>>> >     then I think it makes sense to call the spec "XRD 3.0" because it
>>> >     really is
>>> >     the next version of XRD. We can always put a note in the
>>> >     frontmatter telling
>>> >     readers not to look for an "XRD 2.0" or "XRD 1.0" spec, but
>>> >     instead to look
>>> >     at "XRI Resolution 2.0" and "XRI 1.0" for the predecessor
>>> >     specifications.
>>> >
>>> >     All things being equal (which they never are ;-), I favor planning
>>> for
>>> >     future growth and extensibility, which means I favor keeping the
>>> >     versioning
>>> >     attribute, which tips me ever so slightly towards "XRD 3.0". (Which
>>> is
>>> >     ironic because I prefer the spec name "XRD 1.0" because it's a new
>>> >     spec.)
>>> >
>>> >     I don't think the issue is worth taking a bunch of list bandwidth
>>> >     to figure
>>> >     out, so I'd recommend that:
>>> >
>>> >     a) Anyone else on the list with strong feelings either way, please
>>> >     post your
>>> >     thoughts by Monday.
>>> >
>>> >     b) Eran and Nat as the editors discuss it and make a recommendation.
>>> >
>>> >     =Drummond
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >     > -----Original Message-----
>>> >     > From: Mary McRae [mailto:marypmcrae@gmail.com
>>> >     <mailto:marypmcrae@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Mary McRae
>>> >     > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 5:23 AM
>>> >     > To: 'Drummond Reed'
>>> >     > Subject: RE: Version identifier for XRD spec
>>> >     >
>>> >     > You found the right (and required) answer ;-)
>>> >     >
>>> >     > Mary
>>> >     >
>>> >     > > -----Original Message-----
>>> >     > > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net
>>> >     <mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net>]
>>> >     > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:22 AM
>>> >     > > To: 'OASIS XRI TC'; mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
>>> >     <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>
>>> >     > > Subject: Version identifier for XRD spec
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > Mary,
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > From today's XRI TC call I had an action item to send you and
>>> >     the TC
>>> >     > > list an
>>> >     > > email asking about OASIS spec naming guidelines. Based on the
>>> >     helpful
>>> >     > > info
>>> >     > > about spec packaging you gave us two weeks ago, the TC is
>>> >     currently
>>> >     > > planning
>>> >     > > two new specs, both of which we intend to take to OASIS
>>> >     Standard level:
>>> >     > > XRI
>>> >     > > 3.0 and XRD xxx (xxx = version identifier TBD).
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > XRI 3.0 will consist of four parts (1: Syntax, 2: Resolution,
>>> >     3: http:
>>> >     > > and
>>> >     > > https: Bindings, and 4: info: Binding). XRD will probably be a
>>> >     single
>>> >     > > spec,
>>> >     > > though it might be two parts.
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > Now, the question is about versioning on the XRD spec. This is
>>> >     a new
>>> >     > > spec
>>> >     > > that represents splitting off a significant portion of the
>>> >     content of
>>> >     > > the
>>> >     > > XRI Resolution 2.0 spec into a new spec that defines a generic
>>> >     metadata
>>> >     > > discovery format and protocol which the new XRI 3.0 Part 2:
>>> >     Resolution
>>> >     > > spec
>>> >     > > will then profile (as will other specs, e.g. SAML, OpenID,
>>> >     OAuth, etc.
>>> >     > > who
>>> >     > > want to use interoperable discovery).
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > Our first question is: does an OASIS spec need to use a
>>> >     numeric version
>>> >     > > identifier? In researching this tonight, I believe the answer
>>> >     is at:
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > http://docs.oasis-
>>> >     > > open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata.html#ver
>>> >     <http://open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata.html#ver>
>>> >     > > sion
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > ...which states:
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > *******************
>>> >     > > A specification Version is represented textually by a numeric
>>> >     string
>>> >     > > composed of digits [0-9] and period (".") corresponding to any
>>> >     of the
>>> >     > > following lexical models provided below (as examples), as may be
>>> >     > > relevant to
>>> >     > > the TC's work activity and preference for major/minor version
>>> >     notation.
>>> >     > > Formally, using parenthesis to indicate optionality and "#" to
>>> >     > > represent a
>>> >     > > digit, the allowable pattern is: #(#).#(#)(.#(#)). Use of any
>>> >     other
>>> >     > > pattern
>>> >     > > for version number must be negotiated with the TC
>>> Administration.
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > Examples:
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > 1.0      #.#
>>> >     > > 1.01     #.##
>>> >     > > 1.2.1    #.#.#
>>> >     > > 10.1     ##.#
>>> >     > > ********************
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > If so, that answers the question, and we just need to decide
>>> what
>>> >     > > version
>>> >     > > number to give it (in short: one rationale is to call it 1.0
>>> >     because it
>>> >     > > is a
>>> >     > > new spec; another is to call it 3.0 because it derives from two
>>> >     > > generations
>>> >     > > of XRDS before it -- but that's our issue to figure out).
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > However, if we do have any flexibility, we want to at least
>>> >     ask you
>>> >     > > about
>>> >     > > using a year/date identifier instead of a version number.
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > Thanks in advance. (BTW, I'm thinking of setting up a call in
>>> >     early
>>> >     > > December
>>> >     > > between you and the editors of these new specs to a general
>>> >     Q&A about
>>> >     > > all
>>> >     > > things involved with the mechanics of an OASIS spec. Sound
>>> >     like a good
>>> >     > > idea?)
>>> >     > >
>>> >     > > =Drummond
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >     --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> >     To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>>> >     generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>>> >     https://www.oasis-
>>> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Gabe Wachob / gwachob@wachob.com <mailto:gwachob@wachob.com> \
>>> > http://blog.wachob.com
>>> >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>>> generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>> 
>> 
>> 
>


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