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Subject: Minutes: XRI TC Telecon 2-3PM PT Thursday 2009-06-18


Following are the minutes of the unofficial telecon of the XRI TC at:

Date:  Thursday, 18 June 2009 USA
Time:  2:00PM - 3:00PM Pacific Time (21:00-22:00 UTC)

ATTENDING

Markus Sabadello 
Joseph Holsten 
Drummond Reed
Will Norris
Tatsuki Sakushima
John Bradley
George Fletcher
Nika Jones

REGRETS

Nat Sakimura
Scott Cantor


AGENDA

1) XRD SIGNATURES TAKE 3

The XRD signatures debate is summed up by several recent messages:

	Tatsuki on Ruby adoption challenges:
	http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200906/msg00061.html

	Will on the practical "deliver XRD libraries case":
	http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200906/msg00063.html

	Drummond on a strawman for making this decision:
	http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200906/msg00066.html

Drummond summarized the proposed decision criteria on this issue as follows:

	"We should adopt the XRD signing method that represents the least
TOTAL EFFORT in achieving ubiquitous adoption of secure XRD libraries, then
concentrate our adoption efforts on delivering those libraries everywhere
they are needed."

Tatsuki explained that he's had the dialog with the OpenID community, and
been trying to figure out a simple way to implement a XML dSig library in
Ruby. He found two techniques for doing this, thanks to the help from the
list. However the current options are not easy to install with the Ruby GEM
package manager, and not nearly as easy as installing an OpenID library.
There is also no shared Ruby code (that works) for doing the
canonicalization required by the constrained XML dSig profile.

His feeling is that the key is having canonicalization code that is
interoperable in the different scripting languages. 

Will agrees with Tatsuki about what we need. He summed it up this way: in
order to get canonicalization support in any language there are two options:

	a) Write it in C and put a wrapper around it
	b) Do it natively in the language

The former works but introduces significant contraints. Will feels that
therefore we really need native language implementations of canonicalization
in all popular languages/platforms. The fact that Tatsuki found one in Ruby
that didn't work doesn't mean they can't be fixed.

Will emphasized that the constrained canonicalization required in the
constrained XML dSig profile in the new Working Draft is just walking a DOM
tree. And this is absolutely doable in every scripting language. So what we
need to do is help produce those libraries before we can really push XRD 1.0
adoption forward in the market. 

Tatsuki would like to see XRD signature libraries distributed together with
the OpenID libraries needed on each platform, so that it is super-easy for
developers. Will feels that while this can be very helpful, it's really up
to the distributors of those libraries how they actually go about it.

John agreed that we can encourage it, but we can't enforce it. Will said
that those of us on the TC that feel strongly enough about this need to be
the ones writing the code to see that it actually gets done and is properly
tested so it is interoperable.

George provided another example that even the "super simple signing
approaches" turn out to have many finer points that present interoperability
challenges. So they are not a panecea. And since we are stuck (at present)
with XRD being in XML, the advantages to using a standard XML signing
mechanism are significant.

Joesph asked how many places we actually need to have XRD signature
functionality? Will said that there are a number of existing implementations
-- for example C++, Java, and PHP 5. But Will pointed out that since we
don't have essentially any XRD 1.0 implementations yet, we have to write at
least some of this code on every platform anyway. And that's yet another
reason to just make sure the constrained XML dSig canonicalization code is
written and packaged in at the same time.

George added that one exemplary native implementation, in any popular
platform, is enough to make them much easier on all the others, so we should
concentrate on that. Will said that his Java implementation is coming along
very well, so he would offer that even before his PHP implementation.

The discussion went further into the needs for Rudy. Joesph, Tatsuki, and
Will discussed it and agreed that doing a native Ruby implementation ASAP is
a very high priority.

Lastly, Drummond cited this feedback from Nat on the list last night (Nat
asked for it be reported even though he could not attend):

***** QUOTE *****

What we should do here is to create such implementation for XML DSig
implemented purely in each language. I would suggest GAE/Python, and Ruby
(GEM installable).

Once they are there and can show the compatibility, I am good to go with XML
DSig.

It also will show the communities that we are committed to help them.

***** ENDQUOTE *****

Drummond once again asked whether, after this discussion, there was any
heartburn about proceeding with the constrained XML dSig profile as our one
specific XRD signature method. No one objected, so we reaffirmed our
decision of three weeks ago to proceed with this, with much greater emphasis
on encouraging or abetting implementations on all major platforms and
scripting languages.


2) OTHER XRD 1.0 ISSUES

We talked about the <XRD:TargetAuthority> element and whether it was needed
for a trust model based on a chain of XRDs. Drummond referred to section
10.2.5 of the XRI Resolution 2.0 spec
(http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/2.0/specs/xri-resolution-V2.0.html). They
agreed this would need further review offline.

# WILL AND DRUMMOND to review whether TargetAuthority is required for a
chain of trust across XRDs and report back to the list.

Will also said that there is a different model for including schema
fragments in the text, based on the approach taken in SAML. He will send a
message to the list.

3) NEXT XRD 1.0 WORKING DRAFT

Drummond observed that we are now entering the "punchlist" phase for
completing the first Committee Draft. He suggested we begin using an actual
issues punchlist on the wiki. Such a page already exists at:

	http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/SpecHome 

# DRUMMOND to send a note to the list about using this page to track and
close issues to reach a Committee Draft.

Will said he's ready to push the next Working Draft after consolidating
feedback.

# WILL to review Scott's comments on the signature portion of the spec. 

# WILL to upload a new draft reflecting these and ping the list afterwards.


3) LINK HEADER/HOST META/LRDD STATUS/ISSUES

	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header
	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-site-meta 
	http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hammer-discovery 

We did not have Eran so we were not able to cover these today.

# ERAN, please send an email to the list summarizing any outstanding issues,
particularly as they might impact or be dependencies for the XRD 1.0
Committee Draft.


4) XRI SYNTAX 3.0 WORKING DRAFT 02 STATUS/ISSUES

Drummond said he is still working on it, and hopes to have time on his trip
to London next week to finish Working Draft 02, though it will not be posted
until after his return June 27.


5) NEXT CALL

The next call is tentatively next week at the same time. Will, Drummond, and
John are all borderline as to whether they will be able to attend due to
travel, so it may be cancelled - we will send email closer to the call.

However we WILL have a call the normal time on the following week - Thursday
July 2 - which will be the deadline for finalization of the XRD 1.0
Committee Draft so that we can begin an online vote.




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