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Subject: RE: [xri] Removing ds elements from schema (was: OpenID Delegatingrelationship in XRD)

I am very much in favor of dropping the signature elements from the schema.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Norris [mailto:will@willnorris.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:51 AM
> To: XRI TC
> Subject: [xri] Removing ds elements from schema (was: OpenID Delegating
> relationship in XRD)
> I'm actually really interested in pursuing this a bit more as well.
> It would allow us to use the original content model we had, but in a
> way that works with XSD.  Interestingly, if we don't include the ds:*
> elements as part of the XRD schema, it would solve the problem we had
> with RelaxNG since there is no longer a schema dependence on XML
> DSig.  (Not that I'm necessarily advocating a switch back to RelaxNG
> at this point).
> I'm curious to hear from John and Nat on this as well, since I recall
> them both being vocal about really liking the <Extensions> element
> which contains all extended elements.  It's worth noting, that even
> though <Extensions> provided a nice wrapper for extended elements, we
> still have extended attributes all over the place, so how much does
> that wrapper element really buy you as far as processing is concerned?
> The other big question is the placement of ds:Signature.  I completely
> understand Scott's argument for placing it higher up in the document.
> This change we're discussing would mean that the Signature could now
> appear anywhere in the document.  Scott, how much of a concern is this
> really?  The idea of placing it higher is so that XML processors would
> know early on if they needed to be doing canonicalization.  How many
> processors actually alter their behavior in the presence of the
> Signature element in this way?  I'm fairly certain the Java version of
> XML-Tooling does not.  How about the C version?  We could always
> recommend that XRD providers place the Signature element higher up in
> the document.
> thoughts from others?  If we're going to go down this route, I need to
> go ahead and start moving language around for working draft 07.
> -will
> On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Scott Cantor wrote:
> > Drummond Reed wrote on 2009-09-04:
> >> So if we can solve the problem by not explicitly listing the
> >> non-XRD-namespace elements we use for sigs (ds:KeyInfo and
> >> ds:Signature), but instead treating them as "formal extensions", I
> >> really like that solution.
> >
> > It's not as awkward with KeyInfo as it is with Signature, frankly. I
> > would
> > argue that top-level XRD extensions aren't as common, so I don't
> > know how
> > important it is to do it there, but I suppose you could.
> >
> > One consequence is that the Signature wouldn't be in a predictable
> > location,
> > so I guess that's why I wouldn't be as enthused about it there.
> >
> >> If we did that, how specifically would you suggest going about
> >> documenting
> >> the use of elements from the ds: namespace in the spec. Just
> >> referencing
> >> them in the Signature Processing section?
> >
> > I think you'd leave them documented in the text the same way, just
> > not list
> > them in the schema.
> >
> > Alternatively, in the case of KeyInfo, if you look at the text now,
> > there's
> > absolutely nothing in the spec that really says what to do with it.
> > I could
> > make the argument that it doesn't even have to be mentioned here.
> >
> > -- Scott
> >
> >
> >
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