Re: [xslt-conformance] Spreading the Work

[Lofton Henderson <lofton@rockynet.com>]

Eduardo,

At 09:12 AM 10/25/01 -0700, Eduardo Gutentag wrote:
>[...]
>I believe you're misreading.

I hope so.  My reading contradicts what I believe to be our intention, as 
expressed succinctly in OASIS.IPR.1.


>There are two basic statements in the copyright.
>The first starts with the words "This document", and it asserts that it
>can be copied, redistributed and modified (derived from) as long as the
>copyright notice is preserved.

The whole sentence is:

"This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to 
others, and derivative works that comment on or otherwise explain it or 
assist in its implementation may be prepared, copied, published and 
distributed, in whole or in part, without restriction of any kind, provided 
that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such 
copies and derivative works."

The qualification "that comment on or otherwise explain...or assist 
implementation" is bothersome; but, then later is "without restriction of 
any kind".

Bottom line:  I really don't know how to read this!


>The second starts with the words "However, this document itself", that
>is the document on which the copyright is, not a copy of it, not a
>translation of it, not a derivation of it, but this document itself,
>cannot be modified in any way except in the process of developing an
>OASIS specification.

Huh?  As soon as you make a verbatim copy -- complete with this copyright 
paragraph -- what does the word "itself" refer to in the copied instance?


>So let's put this in concrete terms. The XSLT-conformance TC puts a draft
>of a DTD, let's call it XSLT-conf DTD v1.0, out in the TC's home page.
>That DTD has a copyright notice as specified. That DTD can be copied,
>translated, etc -- that is you can ftp it to your system, modify it, etc.
>as long as you preserve the copyright. But NO ONE can modify the DTD
>document that appears on the Web as reached from the TC home page, except
>the TC itself in the process of working on it.

I like this interpretation.  But as I said, the more I look at it, the less 
I understand how the words actually convey the intention.


>IANAL,

Neither am I (obviously).

>though, so perhaps you should consult yours ;-)

"Yours" would be one of two possibilities, depending on what hat I'm 
wearing:  OASIS's, wearing my XSLT TC member hat; or, W3C's, wearing my 
QAWG hat.

I would actually like our OASIS staff to give a clear explanation of 
OASIS.IPR.4(C)?

Btw, IANAL also, but I have [unfortunately] had a lot of exposure and 
practice over the years -- I used to do a lot of my own agreements in 12 
years of running HSI.  Maybe I'm really out of practice, but I think that 
paragraph is pretty confusing.  Especially to someone looking from the 
outside to get a quick take on what they can/cannot do with OASIS stuff.

Does anyone else find it so?

-Lofton.


>Lofton Henderson wrote:
> >
> > At 10:24 AM 10/25/01 -0400, Karl F. Best wrote:
> > > > Rather than do that privately, Karl is on this list and
> > > > perhaps he can
> > > > comment publicly so that other TCs can reference his response.
> > >
> > >Eduardo had it right: the OASIS IPR allows anyone else to take the work
> > >of OASIS TCs and use it, and create derivative works, as long as the
> > >OASIS copyright statement stays on it.
> >
> > Eduardo and I apparently read it the same way -- derivatives **for
> > restricted purposes**.
> >
> > Quote from OASIS.IPR.4(C):
> >
> > "However, this document itself may not be modified in any way, such as by
> > removing the copyright notice or references to OASIS, except as needed for
> > the purpose of developing OASIS specifications, in which case the
> > procedures for copyrights defined in the OASIS Intellectual Property Rights
> > document must be followed, or as required to translate it into languages
> > other than English."
> >
> > Unless I'm missing some overriding legalese somewhere, I think that is
> > pretty clear.  No modifications, except for some fairly useless
> > exceptions.  I say "useless", because it seems to prevent our most useful
> > and hoped-for scenario (my #2), whereby others take our good work, modify
> > it for their needs, give appropriate credit, and incorporate it into their
> > work.
> >
> > Am I missing or mis-reading something?
> >
> > -Lofton.
> >
> > >(And yes, I'm on all the TC lists, but I'm sometimes a day or so behind
> > >scanning them. So send to me directly if it's urgent.)
> > >
> > ></karl>
> > >=================================================================
> > >Karl F. Best
> > >OASIS - Director, Technical Operations
> > >978.667.5115 x206
> > >karl.best@oasis-open.org  http://www.oasis-open.org
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: G. Ken Holman [mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 9:28 AM
> > > > To: xslt-conformance@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [xslt-conformance] Spreading the Work
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 01/10/24 15:45 -0700, Eduardo Gutentag wrote:
> > > > >from a procedural point of view, the product of OASIS TCs
> > > > should carry a
> > > > >copyright
> > > > >that allows for "stealing" (their words ;-)
> > > > >(see http://oasis-open.org/who/intellectualproperty.shtml)
> > > > >as long as the copyright and OASIS's name are preserved.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't see that copyright notice in what is visible through
> > > > the XSLT's home
> > > > >page at OASIS (under the one you mentioned, "5. Documents")
> > > > so I'm not sure
> > > > >what the status is in this case.
> > > >
> > > > I will ask all members to review all documents they create to ensure
> > > > compliance with the IPR policy before our first official release.
> > > >
> > > > >Ken, you might want to consult with Karl as to what is
> > > > appropriate in this
> > > > >case, or you might consider slapping the right copyright
> > > > notice on the
> > > > >available
> > > > >product of the TC
> > > >
> > > > Rather than do that privately, Karl is on this list and
> > > > perhaps he can
> > > > comment publicly so that other TCs can reference his response.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Eduardo!  (and Karl!)
> > > >
> > > > ...................... Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > G. Ken Holman
> > > > mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
> > > > Crane Softwrights Ltd.
> > > > http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/s/
> > > > Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0     +1(613)489-0999
> > > > (Fax:-0995)
> > > > Web site:     XSL/XML/DSSSL/SGML/OmniMark services, training,
> > > > products.
> > > > Book:  Practical Transformation Using XSLT and XPath ISBN
> > > > 1-894049-06-3
> > > > Article: What is XSLT?
> > > > http://www.xml.com/pub/2000/08/holman/index.html
> > > > Next public training (instructor-live, Internet-live, and web-based):
> > > > -2001-10-22,11-01,11-02,11-05,11-19,11-21,12-03,12-05,12-09,12
> > > > -10,12-19
> > > >
> > > >
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>--
>Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail: eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM
>XML Technology Center          |         Phone:  (510) 986-3651 x73651
>Sun Microsystems Inc.          |