Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions

["Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>]

Certainly - HTTP 404 - your message didn't go through...

"The server has not found anything matching the Request-URI. No indication is given of whether the condition is temporary or permanent."

 

And why did you bring up email????   A RESTful doesn't use email - does "http-binding interface?"

 

The return to the post contains all information required. 

 

Keep it simple.  The BCM dialog seems to be doing a deep dive into complexity/technology.

 

- Bruce

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>

To: "Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>

Cc: <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:42 PM

Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions

Bruce,

Absolutely!  Those are all built-in to BPSS - but 
not
to a http-binding interface.  You would need to add
those 
capabilities.

Notice while you can add in those capabilities 
its
weak.

Example - I'm paying by CC online - and it says
"Click 
here to authorize payment and wait...".

So eventually if everything goes 
OK - you
get a screen saying - Payment Approved - and
an email confirming 
that.

However - what happens if you get a HTTP404
instead?  Did 
your payment go thru?  And what
if you get no confirming email?  Is 
the email
hung-up somewhere - is the email address OK -
did it get zapped 
by anti-spam gateway?

Obviously using an ebMS client gives you 
much
more control over the process.

DW

----- Original Message 
----- 
From: "Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>
To: 
"David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: 
<bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: 
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process 
definitions


> I certainly do know if the information has passed - 
what are you talking
> about??
>
> I first know if I got to 
the URL, and then I can build in a business
> acknowledgment.  You 
haven't forgotten checking if the message can be
> interpreted correctly 
AND MAKES SENSE have you?
>
> - Bruce
>
>
> ----- 
Original Message ----- 
> From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
> To: "Bruce 
Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>; 
<bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services 
and Process definitions
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> We are 
going to have to send you in for some re-education!
>
> RESTful is 
passe - its now called http-binding.
>
> Jean-Jacques issued a huge 
rant this week on BPSS list - vis
> this topic.  Basically - how do I 
put this politely? - http-binding
> isn't worth squat when it comes to 
reliable stateful business
> interactions.  You have no way of 
verifying anything happened,
> that anyone got anything, nor what state a 
process has reached.
> Apart from that - its great!! ; -)
>
> 
JJ was actually recounting his e-banking experience with a
> major bank - 
and his credit-card bill and their use of webpages
> and emails - same 
grab-bag.  The bank *thinks* this is all
> reliable messaging 
services - when in fact its not.  And they
> don't care - because 
they just apply late charges anyway!!
>
> So - http-binding - and 
its just fine for things like query to
> registry - information pull - but 
be very careful otherwise...
>
> Cheers, DW.
>
> ----- 
Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>
> To: <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services 
and Process definitions
>
>
> > I prefer RESTful services 
myself - simpler.
> >
> > - Bruce
> >
> 
>
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <nwasserman@adaptiveservices.com>
> > To: <MIKE.LUBASH@DFAS.MIL>; 
<bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:58 PM
> > Subject: RE: [bcm] Web 
Services and Process definitions
> >
> >
> > I think 
it's important to distinguish web service, as a technical means
to
> 
> capture loosely coupled, encapsulated interactive components, from
> 
business
> > services or business service components, which can be 
delivered with a
> > number of different vehicles (automated on the 
web, outsourced, human).
> > Since web service has become embedded as a 
term of art for the automated
> > vehicle, I don't think it's wise to 
change its usage.
> >
> > For the technical web service, loose 
coupling works.  But for the
business
> > service interaction, 
it may be useful to think of the service in terms
of
> > "rich 
coupling", by which I mean that the service can respond to a
complex
> 
> set of information characterizing the needs of the service 
recipient.
> > There may be differing degrees in the "richness" of the 
coupling.  Using
a
> > biological metaphor, not all organs have 
to be equally adaptive to the
> > outside environment.  Likewise, 
some service components may be
specialized
> > to support 
interaction with complex service recipients like human
beings.
> > 
Other service components can get by with less rich interactive
> > 
capabilities, such as those that deal with standard databases, and
> > 
communications protocols.  In between these poles would be service
> 
> components such as semantic brokers.  Not to make things 
too
complicated,
> > maybe there is a spectrum of interactivity with 
"process" at the
> procedural
> > end and "service" at the 
service-recipient-oriented end.
> >
> > Neil
> 
>
> >
> > 
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