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Subject: Re: XBRL/CIQ interop - was RE: off sick
Hi Hugh, We have not tested your proposal yet and this could happen next week. But keep us updated with this. Many thanks, Regards, Ram On 6/28/06, Hugh Wallis <hughwallis@xbrl.org> wrote: > Hello again. > > The SWG met last Thursday and discussed, from the XBRL technical > perspective, the proposal I had shared informally with you. Members were > generally in favour of the approach and the vendor members agreed to run > tests on the actual schemas to see if there were any technical issues. I > hope that they will be able to report back positively this Thursday but past > experience shows that sometimes these things take a bit longer than hoped > for. > > Have you had the opportunity to test my proposal in any software that > implements/makes use of the draft to see if it is a viable approach for your > standard? > > Thanks > > Hugh > > > Hugh Wallis > XBRL International Inc. - Standards Development > hughwallis@xbrl.org > +1 416-238-2553 > Skype: hughwallis > MSN: hughwallis@hotmail.com (but do not send e-mail to this address) > Yahoo IM: hughwallis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ram Kumar [mailto:kumar.sydney@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:51 AM > To: Hugh Wallis > Cc: Max Voskob; Graham Lobsey > Subject: Re: off sick > > Hi Hugh, > > Can you keep us udated with the outcome of XBRL SWG on this? > > Thanks > > Ram > > On 6/21/06, Hugh Wallis <hughwallis@xbrl.org> wrote: > > > > Thanks Max - I certainly would expect that you need to test all this out - > > just as we do - and please note that although I have made these proposals > to > > the XBRL SWG they have not been discussed at a meeting yet and I do expect > > some resistance from the original designer of the XBRL XLink schemas (a > bit > > of NIH I think). However other members have indicated their general > approval > > of my proposal so that has to be worked through. Accordingly this > > conversation is entirely unofficial at this stage from my p.o.v. > > > > I think there is a paper in here for presentation somewhere ... > > > > BTW - my contact numbers in the UK are +44 (0)1737 243-227 (land line) or > > +44 (0)7776 284-281 (mobile) - from noon Thursday this week to 10am > Thursday > > next week UK time - as well as e-mail and Skype of course > > > > Cheers > > > > Hugh > > > > Hugh Wallis > > XBRL International Inc. - Standards Development > > hughwallis@xbrl.org > > +1 416-238-2553 > > Skype: hughwallis > > MSN: hughwallis@hotmail.com (but do not send e-mail to this address) > > Yahoo IM: hughwallis > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Max Voskob [mailto:max.voskob@paradise.net.nz] > > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:53 PM > > To: 'Hugh Wallis'; 'Ram Kumar' > > Subject: RE: off sick > > > > > > Hugh, thanx for doing out work for us :-) > > > > I think we just have to take your suggestions on board and see how it fits > > into the rest of the spec. Personally, I don't expect any complications, > but > > it may take a few days to check everything. > > > > Don't see any need for a phone conversation at this stage - things are > clear > > enough to take actions. > > > > We'll be back with an update in a few days. > > > > Cheers, > > Max > > ________________________________ > > From: Hugh Wallis [mailto:hughwallis@xbrl.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2006 07:32 > > To: 'Max Voskob'; 'Ram Kumar' > > Subject: RE: off sick > > > > > > > > OK - as promised, here is a more detailed write up of the various issues > as > > well as my proposed solution. > > > > The root cause of this is that the W3C did not publish a schema (even a > > non-normative one) for the namespace http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink. This > > leaves those trying to implement XLink with the task of creating their own > > schemas. > > I'll give the brief summary here and then go on to describe it all in more > > detail. The next stage of the problem comes from the fact that XBRL and > CIQ > > have created independent implementations of the > http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink > > namespace, both of which define things like attribute groups and global > > types in that namespace which, it could be argued, do not belong there > > (because the owners of the namespace have never defined them as belonging > > there). These two implementations are incompatible. In addition the CIQ > > implementation has defined the traversal attributes <xsd:attribute > name="to" > > type="xsd:NMTOKEN">, <xsd:attribute name="from" type="xsd:NMTOKEN"> and > > <xsd:attribute name="label" type="xsd:NMTOKEN"> as NMTOKEN whereas these > are > > defined in the text of the spec at > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xlink/#traversal-atts (and in the XBRL > > implementation) as being NCName. To fix this all we can create a minimal > > implementation of the http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink that strictly confines > > itself to those things that are defined by the owners of that namespace in > > the relevant spec. > > > > OK - now for the gory detail. > > > > Lets take a look at the XLink spec first of all: > > > > This specification defines the namespace http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink - > see > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xlink/#att-method and in doing so > > states "XLink's namespace provides global attributes for use on elements > > that are in any arbitrary namespace. The global attributes are type, href, > > role, arcrole, title, show, actuate, label, from, and to." There is > nothing > > in the specification that defines anything else as belonging to this > > namespace. > > > > XBRL has defined a schema as follows (a non-normative version is available > > at http://www.xbrl.org/2003/xlink-2003-12-31.xsd ): > > > > xlink-2003-12-31.xsd (normative) > > > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> > > > > <!-- (c) XBRL International. See www.xbrl.org/legal --> > > > > <schema targetNamespace="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > > > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > > > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"; > > > > elementFormDefault="qualified" > > > > attributeFormDefault="qualified"> > > > > > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > XLink attribute specification > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > > > > > <simpleType name="nonEmptyURI"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > A URI type with a minimum length of 1 character. > > > > Used on role and arcrole and href elements. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <restriction base="anyURI"> > > > > <minLength value="1"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > > > > > <simpleType name="typeEnum"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Enumeration of values for the type attribute > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <restriction base="string"> > > > > <enumeration value="simple"/> > > > > <enumeration value="extended"/> > > > > <enumeration value="locator"/> > > > > <enumeration value="arc"/> > > > > <enumeration value="resource"/> > > > > <enumeration value="title"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="simpleType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="simple"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="extendedType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="extended"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="locatorType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="locator"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="arcType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="arc"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="resourceType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="resource"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <attributeGroup name="titleType"> > > > > <attribute name="type" use="required"> > > > > <simpleType> > > > > <restriction base="token"> > > > > <enumeration value="title"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > </attribute> > > > > </attributeGroup> > > > > > > > > <simpleType name="showEnum"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Enumeration of values for the show attribute > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <restriction base="string"> > > > > <enumeration value="new"/> > > > > <enumeration value="replace"/> > > > > <enumeration value="embed"/> > > > > <enumeration value="other"/> > > > > <enumeration value="none"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > > > > > <simpleType name="actuateEnum"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Enumeration of values for the actuate attribute > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <restriction base="string"> > > > > <enumeration value="onLoad"/> > > > > <enumeration value="onRequest"/> > > > > <enumeration value="other"/> > > > > <enumeration value="none"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > > > > > <attribute name="type" type="xlink:typeEnum"/> > > > > <attribute name="role" type="xlink:nonEmptyURI"/> > > > > <attribute name="arcrole" type="xlink:nonEmptyURI"/> > > > > <attribute name="title" type="string"/> > > > > <attribute name="show" type="xlink:showEnum"/> > > > > <attribute name="actuate" type="xlink:actuateEnum"/> > > > > <attribute name="label" type="NCName"/> > > > > <attribute name="from" type="NCName"/> > > > > <attribute name="to" type="NCName"/> > > > > <attribute name="href" type="anyURI"/> > > > > > > > > </schema> > > > > and this is complemented by a schema in an xbrl owned namespace as follows > > (non-normative version is available at > > http://www.xbrl.org/2003/xl-2003-12-31.xsd ): > > > > xl-2003-12-31.xsd (normative) > > > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> > > > > <!-- (c) XBRL International. See www.xbrl.org/legal --> > > > > <schema targetNamespace="http://www.xbrl.org/2003/XLink"; > > > > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > > > xmlns:xl="http://www.xbrl.org/2003/XLink"; > > > > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"; > > > > elementFormDefault="qualified" > > > > attributeFormDefault="unqualified"> > > > > > > > > <import namespace="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"; > > schemaLocation="xlink-2003-12-31.xsd"/> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="documentationType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Element type to use for documentation of > > > > extended links and linkbases. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <simpleContent> > > > > <extension base="string"> > > > > <anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax"/> > > > > </extension> > > > > </simpleContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > > > > > <element name="documentation" type="xl:documentationType" > abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Abstract element to use for documentation of > > > > extended links and linkbases. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > </element> > > > > > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > XBRL simple and extended link schema constructs > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="titleType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Type for the abstract title element - > > > > used as a title element template. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <complexContent> > > > > <restriction base="anyType"> > > > > <attributeGroup ref="xlink:titleType"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </complexContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > <element name="title" type="xl:titleType" abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Generic title element for use in extended link documentation. > > > > Used on extended links, arcs, locators. > > > > See http://www.w3.org/TR/xlink/#title-element for > > details. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > </element> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="locatorType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Generic locator type. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <complexContent> > > > > <restriction base="anyType"> > > > > <sequence> > > > > <element ref="xl:title" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" /> > > > > </sequence> > > > > <attributeGroup ref="xlink:locatorType"/> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:href" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:label" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:role" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:title" use="optional" /> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </complexContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > <element name="locator" type="xl:locatorType" abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Abstract locator element to be used as head of locator substitution > > group > > > > for all extended link locators in XBRL. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > </element> > > > > > > > > <simpleType name="useEnum"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Enumerated values for the use attribute on extended link arcs. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <restriction base="NMTOKEN"> > > > > <enumeration value="optional" /> > > > > <enumeration value="prohibited" /> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </simpleType> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="arcType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > basic extended link arc type - extended where necessary for specific > > arcs > > > > Extends the generic arc type by adding use, priority and order > > attributes. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <complexContent> > > > > <restriction base="anyType"> > > > > <sequence> > > > > <element ref="xl:title" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" /> > > > > </sequence> > > > > <attributeGroup ref="xlink:arcType"/> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:from" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:to" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:arcrole" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:title" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:show" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:actuate" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute name="order" type="decimal" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute name="use" type="xl:useEnum" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute name="priority" type="integer" use="optional" /> > > > > <anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax" /> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </complexContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > <element name="arc" type="xl:arcType" abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Abstract element to use as head of arc element substitution group. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > </element> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="resourceType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Generic type for the resource type element > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <complexContent mixed="true"> > > > > <restriction base="anyType"> > > > > <attributeGroup ref="xlink:resourceType"/> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:label" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:role" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:title" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute name="id" type="ID" use="optional" /> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </complexContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > <element name="resource" type="xl:resourceType" abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Abstract element to use as head of resource element substitution > > group. > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > </element> > > > > > > > > <complexType name="extendedType"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Generic extended link type > > > > </documentation> > > > > </annotation> > > > > <complexContent> > > > > <restriction base="anyType"> > > > > <choice minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"> > > > > <element ref="xl:title" /> > > > > <element ref="xl:documentation" /> > > > > <element ref="xl:locator" /> > > > > <element ref="xl:arc" /> > > > > <element ref="xl:resource" /> > > > > </choice> > > > > <attributeGroup ref="xlink:extendedType"/> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:role" use="required" /> > > > > <attribute ref="xlink:title" use="optional" /> > > > > <attribute name="id" type="ID" use="optional" /> > > > > <anyAttribute > > namespace="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"; > > processContents="lax"/> > > > > </restriction> > > > > </complexContent> > > > > </complexType> > > > > <element name="extended" type="xl:extendedType" abstract="true"> > > > > <annotation> > > > > <documentation> > > > > Abstract extended link element at head of extended link substitution > > group. > > > > > > ... > > > > [Message clipped] > > > >
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