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Subject: RE: [dita-translation] Re: Introduction of <surface-form> to the acronymproposal
Based on discussions at today's call, I've updated the wiki page for Acronym requirements: http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/AcronymRequirements I hope that this clarifies the purpose of the page, and will in turn help clarify the requirement. There is a section for requirements titled "The acronym proposal is intended to meet the following requirements". If you see any items missing from that section, please go ahead and add them. If you do not have access to edit the wiki, go ahead and send your items to the list, and somebody should be able to add them. Try to do this within the next week or two, so that we have a complete list by our next meeting; at that point, I hope that we can fully state our requirements, and then move more quickly through the solution stage. Thanks - Robert D Anderson IBM Authoring Tools Development Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit (507) 253-8787, T/L 553-8787 (Good Monday & Thursday) Robert D Anderson/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 08/27/2007 09:08:51 AM: > Hi everybody, > > The proposal to use keyword was made because that has (so far) been the > fallback for bits of reusable text that need to be used virtually anywhere. > It's allowed in more places than any of the other phrase-like elements. So, > using it for acronym would have the smallest impact to the rest of the spec > -- using term would probably mean that we're also adding term to new places > in the base DITA specification. > > That said - I do think that details like this one are somewhat less > important. As far as I can tell, we still haven't made any progress on > figuring out what exactly this requirement is supposed to do. My starter > list from a couple weeks ago is unchanged: > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/AcronymRequirements > > I still think that several of us have different ideas of what this > requirement is supposed to do. It seems silly to argue over the technical > details of the solution when we don't agree on what we're trying to > accomplish. I really don't think it is possible to get agreement on a final > proposal unless we get agreement on the requirement. If we can figure out > what this needs to do, then it becomes much easier to discard extraneous > parts of the solution. If we try to discard one person's input without > being able to point to a requirement, then most likely this just means that > we are not going to meet that person's true requirements. > > Does that make sense? I feel like we've gone back and forth on this issue a > lot, and this has always seemed to be at the root of it. We kind of took on > the proposal "I need an acronym requirement" and started designing without > spending much time on the requirement itself. I think we also still haven't > asked the main TC what *they* expect from this requirement; that might have > been my to-do before I left on vacation, but if so I'll have to apologize > for not getting to it. > > Robert D Anderson > IBM Authoring Tools Development > Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit > (507) 253-8787, T/L 553-8787 (Good Monday & Thursday) > > > > "JoAnn Hackos" > <joann.hackos@com > tech-serv.com> To > <Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com>, > 08/26/2007 08:34 "Andrzej Zydron" > PM <azydron@xml-intl.com> > cc > <dita-translation@lists.oasis-open. > org>, <bhertz@sdl.com>, "Bryan > Schnabel" > <bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com>, Charles > Pau/Cambridge/IBM@Lotus, > <christian.lieske@sap.com>, > <dpooley@sdl.com>, > <esrig-ia@esrig.com>, > <fsasaki@w3.org>, > <rfletcher@sdl.com>, > <mambrose@sdl.com>, > <ishida@w3.org>, > <tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator. > com>, <KARA@CA.IBM.COM>, > <ysavourel@translate.com> > Subject > RE: [dita-translation] Re: > Introduction of <surface-form> to > the acronym proposal > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deborah, > The recommendation to use <keyword> in the acronym proposal came from > Robert Anderson. Perhaps (if Robert is back from holiday), he can comment > on the reasons for his recommendation. We have not discussed using <term> > > Thanks for your input. > JoAnn > > > > JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD > President > Comtech Services, Inc. > 710 Kipling Street, Suite 400 > Denver CO 80215 > 303-232-7586 > joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com > > > > > > > > From: Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com [mailto:Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 5:30 PM > To: Andrzej Zydron > Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com; charles_pau@us.ibm.com; > christian.lieske@sap.com; DITA Translation SC; dpooley@sdl.com; > dschell@us.ibm.com; fsasaki@w3.org; Gershon L Joseph; > Howard.Schwartz@trados.com; ishida@w3.org; Jennifer Linton; Kara Warburton; > mambrose@sdl.com; nick@salftrans.co.uk; pcarey@lexmark.com; > rfletcher@sdl.com; Sukumar.Munshi@lionbridge.com; > tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; ysavourel@translate.com > Subject: Re: [dita-translation] Re: Introduction of <surface-form> to the > acronym proposal > > > Andrzej Zydron <azydron@xml-intl.com> wrote on 23/08/2007 12:09:10 AM: > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronyms > > It's looking good. I've got a couple of comments on the current draft. > (I'm sorry I can't raise these personally at the conference call, but it's > at 1 am for me.) > > 1. Kara raised the good point about whether to use <term> or <keyword> as > the specialization base. Here are the descriptions of both elements from > the DITA 1.1 language spec: > > ----- > > keyword > > The <keyword> element identifies a keyword or token, such as a single value > from an enumerated list, the name of a command or parameter, product name, > or a lookup key for a message. > > "Keyword" means any text that has a unique or key-like value. For example, > a product name. Where there is a element that has a better meaning for what > you are describing, use that element. The keyword element is a generic > element; use it when no other element applies. The keyword element can also > be used to contain reusable text. > > ----- > > term > > The <term> element identifies words that may have or require extended > definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, > terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries. > > ----- > > It looks to me that <term> is a closer match. > > 2. Even though this proposal deliberately avoids talking about > abbreviations (that aren't acronyms), we should assume that users aren't > going to make the distinction, and that they will use this feature for > their abbreviations too. The "scope" section of the proposal should state > that the proposal is not intended to cover non-acronym abbreviations, and > why. (I assume that capitalization at the start of a sentence is one of > the aspects. I had a go at a proposal for a solution to the capitalization > issue, and it got so hairy that I doubt it would ever pass the TC vote. If > anyone wants a copy for posterity or humour value, call me.) > > -- > Deborah Pickett > Information Architect, Moldflow Corporation, Melbourne > Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com > > > > > Kara Warburton wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I have just returned from a business trip... sorry for being unable to > > > comment on the proposals or attend the meetings in recent weeks. > > > > > > I would like to make a few comments on the proposal.... > > > > > > 1. We still have not addressed the situation of abbreviations that are > NOT > > > acronyms, such as "abend" for "abnormal end of task". These also have > to be > > > handled similar to acronyms but they need to be marked up with their > own > > > element. Marking them with <acronym> would be a mistake. > > > > > > 2. There are some ambiguities in the added text from Don... although > very > > > helpful I would like to suggest some changes to correct them. A few > > > examples would also help. Please see the attached doc file which has > "track > > > changes" enabled. > > > > > > (See attached file: Acronyms_and_translation_kw.doc) > > > > > > > > > > > > Kara Warburton > > > IBM LanguageWare & Terminology > > > Team Lead, Language & Data Integration > > > 905-413-2170 > > > > > > IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology > > > LanguageWare: http://languageware.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ > > > My blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrzej Zydron - > > > > XML-INTL > > > > <azydron@xml-intl > To > > > .com> Gershon L Joseph > > > > <gershon@tech-tav.com> > > > > 14/08/2007 03:10 > cc > > > PM DITA Translation SC > > > > > <dita-translation@lists.oasis-open. > > > org>, mambrose@sdl.com, > > > > pcarey@lexmark.com, > > > > rfletcher@sdl.com, > bhertz@sdl.com, > > > ishida@w3.org, > > > > > tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.c > > > om, christian.lieske@sap.com, > > > > > jennifer.linton@comtech-serv.com, > > > Sukumar.Munshi@lionbridge.com, > > > > charles_pau@us.ibm.com, > > > > dpooley@sdl.com, > > > > nick@salftrans.co.uk, > > > > fsasaki@w3.org, > > > > ysavourel@translate.com, > > > > dschell@us.ibm.com, > > > > bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com, > > > > Howard.Schwartz@trados.com, Kara > > > > Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA > > > > > Subject > > > Introduction of <surface-form> > to > > > the acronym proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > Subsequent to the TC discussion yesterday I have updated the proposal > > > accordingly: > > > > > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronyms > > > > > > The main point has been the addition of the <surface-form> element, and > > > the modification of the relevant text. I have also copied Don's > > > excellent 'Acronym and Translation' list into the proposal as it > > > defines succinctly the issues involved. I hope we are now very close to > > > full agreement on the acronym proposal. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > AZ > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > email - azydron@xml-intl.com > > > smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron > > > PO Box 2167 > > > Gerrards Cross > > > Bucks SL9 8XF > > > United Kingdom > > > Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181 > > > FAX +(44) 1753 480 465 > > > www - http://www.xml-intl.com > > > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > > > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > > > may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > > > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > > > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > > > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > > > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > > > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > > > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Unless > > > explicitly stated otherwise this message is provided for informational > > > purposes only and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (See attached file: azydron.vcf) > > > > > > -- > > email - azydron@xml-intl.com > > smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron > > PO Box 2167 > > Gerrards Cross > > Bucks SL9 8XF > > United Kingdom > > Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181 > > FAX +(44) 1753 480 465 > > www - http://www.xml-intl.com > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only for > > the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you may not > > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > > delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as > > information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive > > late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not > > accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this > > message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification > > is required please request a hard-copy version. Unless explicitly stated > > otherwise this message is provided for informational purposes only and > > should not be construed as a solicitation or offer. > > > > > > [attachment "azydron.vcf" deleted by Deborah A Pickett/MOLDFLOW] >
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