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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Process-Oriented Architectures (POA)
David, I am going to respectfully disagree with you here, mostly because I am looking at SOAs not only within the ebXML framework, but outside as well (that is my job given my position as a consultant to the US federal government). I assert that SOAs *support* the business process layer, and that the business process layer therefore resides on top of the services layer (at least in my view of "the stack"). So I don't advocate removing anything "from where it's been all along" - in my estimation, the business process layer has not ever been part of the services layer, but is rather supported by it. Of course, I could be persuaded otherwise as our work progresses - I always keep an open mind. Thanks for your excellent feedback. Joe David RR Webber wrote: > > Joe, > > The direct answer is - of course BPM is part of the stack - are > you proposing we REMOVE it from where its been all along?!? > > Is someone building cars without steering wheels yet?!? Is > anyone buying them? > > See ebXML architecture for starters - and then both JJ and my > articles on SOA at ebXMLforum.com - with appropriate > diagrams - not to mention slide #26 from presentation here: > > http://drrw.net/presentations/ebXML%20Today%20-%20March%2004.zip > > Cheers, DW. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info> > Cc: "ebSOA" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "Monica J. Martin" > <monica.martin@sun.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Process-Oriented Architectures (POA) > > > Hmmm...I think I missed a direct answer to my question in all of this. > > ;) > > > > Joe > > > > David RR Webber wrote: > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > I just telegraphed the British Embassy and Prince Charles > > > is going to have a word with his mother for us. > > > > > > Nice to have this hot line. Clearly will greatly help us > > > fend off imposters and claimants trying to usurp our > > > position as the authorities on ebSOA. > > > > > > You may also want to check out JJs article > > > at http://www.ebXMLforum.com where he diagrams same. > > > > > > Cheers, DW. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > > > To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info> > > > Cc: "ebSOA" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "Monica J. Martin" > > > <monica.martin@sun.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:21 AM > > > Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Process-Oriented Architectures (POA) > > > > > > > David RR Webber wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > I humbly submit this is a redherring. > > > > > > > > > > Service Oriented IMHO already implies Process by extension - since > > > > > behind the delivery of any service there must be a process > > > > > controlling and facilitating it. Tha'ts why BPSS and BPEL are part > > > > > of the SOA stack. > > > > > > > > Thanks David - but according to whom are they part of the SOA stack? > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > We need another acronym like a hole in the head - let's leave that > > > > > stuff to the professionals at Gartner to dream up, eh? ; -) > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, DW. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > > > > > To: "ebSOA" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > > Cc: "Monica J. Martin" <monica.martin@sun.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:30 AM > > > > > Subject: [ebsoa] Process-Oriented Architectures (POA) > > > > > > > > > > > I know that our concentration is to be service-oriented > architectures, > > > > > > but at the same time I'm thinking about what will lie beyond (so > that > > > we > > > > > > can best prepare). A term popped into my head on the way home > > > yesterday > > > > > > (the DC Beltway apparatentely inspires me): Process-Oriented > > > > > > Architecture, or "POA". > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard this term used before? I Google'd it and found > few > > > > > > hits, all of which seemed to be individual (rather than corporate) > > > > > > references. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can tell from the term, just as SOAs enable (involve, pick > your > > > > > > favorite word here) the use of shared services, POAs will extend > SOAs > > > to > > > > > > enable the use of shared Web Services-based processes that are > based > > > on > > > > > > shared Web Services that are defined within SOAs, working in > concert > > > > > > with each other. So for a US federal application (my primary > client), > > > > > > this could mean a set of shared Web Services-based business > processes > > > > > > for federal agencies, in a flexible, agile, process environment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this concept resound with anyone? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Joseph Chiusano > > > > > > Associate > > > > > > Booz | Allen | Hamilton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Joseph Chiusano > > > > Associate > > > > Booz | Allen | Hamilton > > > > > > > > -- > > Kind Regards, > > Joseph Chiusano > > Associate > > Booz | Allen | Hamilton > > -- Kind Regards, Joseph Chiusano Associate Booz | Allen | Hamilton
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