RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

["Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>]

Yes - thanks David. My point was that, as written in a public forum, a
reader could interpret the quote I highlighted below - since it had no
additional context - as meaning that there is an ebXML v3 - which
implies that there is an ebXML v2 as well (is that the case? I have not
seen this "officially" spoken of).

Vague statements such as this - though well-meant and unintentional -
tend to perpetuate the very problems that I believe this TC is trying to
overcome (the problem of confusion and misinformation with regards to
these initiatives). And when they come from well-meaning TC chairs, the
problem is magnified.

Thanks,
Joe

Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:23 AM
> To: Chiusano Joseph; john hardin; Monica J. Martin; Duane 
> Nickull; dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; tony.scott@gm.com; 
> john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; 
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> Joe,
> 
> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> 
> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated 
> architecture that documents the new capabilities that all 
> this enables.
> 
> Thanks, DW
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>; 
> "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; 
> <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; 
> <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; 
> <psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; 
> <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" 
> <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; 
> <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; 
> "James Bryce Clark"
> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> 
> <Quote>
> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 
> is closing
> that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> </Quote>
> 
> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> Joseph Chiusano
> Booz Allen Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> > To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
> > dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
> > tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
> > ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> > golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
> > tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James 
> Bryce Clark
> > Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >
> > Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >
> > I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like
> > to enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities
> > or just for ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale
> > asked me about addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
> > conversation with Jamie the other night, and got some
> > direction from both him and from Duane. I would very much
> > like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump how the two
> > groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call next
> > Wed if allowed.
> >
> > My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward with
> > the work from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a
> > facilitator towards interoperability among the upcoming
> > business process frameworks (WS*, ebXML and SemWeb are three
> > that are working to gain dominance). The request-response
> > model is a very simplistic view that isn't currently mapping
> > well onto the true complexity that large industries have
> > developed in their shared business processes. For example, no
> > one will argue today that inventory visibility for the
> > automotive industry is a request-response model between two
> > partners. Healthcare is another area that is very complex,
> > and requires multiple interactions between large numbers of
> > process participants to complete the information exchange,
> > with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >
> > The other reality is that process participants require
> > constant realtime feeds of information from many points in
> > the process, which are owned and offered by various companies
> > of various sizes and IT capabilities.
> > This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
> > operating framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> > that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
> > causation techniques and other things like shared industry
> > process B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >
> > To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> >
> > a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3
> > is closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >
> > b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real
> > world use cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS
> > and shine a light on successful implementations
> >
> > c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
> > agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent
> > stuff is the long-term target)
> >
> > d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
> > consistent direction towards convergence
> >
> > My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> > verge of a major break in what I think is so far a
> > stagnation. The potential of the internet is clear - and
> > everyone is aware that it's potential is more than just human
> > readable web pages. We all feel it, business has been
> > preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all want to build it.
> >
> > However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
> >
> > a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging
> > between partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >
> > b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >
> > c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn
> > out mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
> > entire movement)
> >
> > The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of
> > these problems. I would like to help by completing the
> > patterns and the catalog of patterns, and publish the use
> > cases to describe it. There also needs to be a major outreach
> > effort to all industry groups that are building shared
> > business processes (which by the way, look much more complex
> > than simple request-response models).
> >
> > That's it, I guess....
> >
> > John
> > 313.930.5323
> >
> > Monica J. Martin wrote:
> > > John,
> > > On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> > MacKenzie was
> > > the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> > could provide
> > > some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
> > > original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an 
> update on ebSOA
> > > and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> > ebSOA would
> > > assist in defining the next generation architecture for 
> ebXML. Your
> > > thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ~~~~~~~~~
> > john c hardin
> > sanghainteractive.com
> > 313.930.5323 cell
> > mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >
> > "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> > the image of a global village."
> >
> >      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>