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DW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew MacKenzie" <mattm@adobe.com> To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> Cc: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "David Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>; "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark" <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin > John, > > Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo. Certainly, the > ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that direction, but I > don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward that vision. > > -matt > > Chiusano Joseph wrote: > > >Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on > >this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable > >information. > > > >Kind Regards, > >Joseph Chiusano > >Booz Allen Hamilton > >Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] > >>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM > >>To: David Webber (XML) > >>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; > >>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; > >>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; > >>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; > >>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; > >>tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark > >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin > >> > >>That would be the list, thanks David. > >>Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to > >>encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other > >>WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious > >>point is that we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the > >>other side.... > >> > >>john > >> > >>David Webber (XML) wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Joe, > >>> > >>>That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!! > >>> > >>>We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture > >>>that documents the new capabilities that all this enables. > >>> > >>>Thanks, DW > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > >>>To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin" > >>><Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" > >>> > >>> > >><david@drrw.info>; "Duane > >> > >> > >>>Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; > >>><jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; > >>><john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>; > >>> > >>> > >><ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; > >> > >> > >>><ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" > >>><johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; > >>><tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; > >>> > >>> > >>"James Bryce Clark" > >> > >> > >>><jamie.clark@oasis-open.org> > >>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM > >>>Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin > >>> > >>> > >>><Quote> > >>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is > >>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote> > >>> > >>>Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is? > >>> > >>>Thanks, > >>>Joe > >>> > >>>Joseph Chiusano > >>>Booz Allen Hamilton > >>>Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] > >>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM > >>>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; > >>>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; > >>>>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; > >>>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; > >>>> > >>>> > >>golsen@contivo.com; John > >> > >> > >>>>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; > >>>>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark > >>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin > >>>> > >>>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome. > >>>> > >>>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to > >>>>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or > >>>> > >>>> > >>just for > >> > >> > >>>>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about > >>>>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie > >>>>the other night, and got some direction from both him and > >>>> > >>>> > >>from Duane. > >> > >> > >>>>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump > >>>>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call > >>>>next Wed if allowed. > >>>> > >>>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward > >>>> > >>>> > >>with the work > >> > >> > >>>>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards > >>> > >>> > >>>>interoperability among the upcoming business process > >>>> > >>>> > >>frameworks (WS*, > >> > >> > >>>>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The > >>>>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't > >>>> > >>>> > >>currently > >> > >> > >>>>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have > >>>>developed in their shared business processes. For example, > >>>> > >>>> > >>no one will > >> > >> > >>>>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive > >>>> > >>>> > >>industry is a > >> > >> > >>>>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another > >>>>area that is very complex, and requires multiple > >>>> > >>>> > >>interactions between > >> > >> > >>>>large numbers of process participants to complete the information > >>>>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution. > >>>> > >>>>The other reality is that process participants require constant > >>>>realtime feeds of information from many points in the > >>>> > >>>> > >>process, which > >> > >> > >>>>are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT > >>>>capabilities. > >>>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating > >>>>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric" > >>>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation > >>>>techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on > >>>>top. The network REALLY IS the computer.... > >>>> > >>>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to: > >>>> > >>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is > >>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) > >>>> > >>>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use > >>>>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and > >>>> > >>>> > >>shine a light > >> > >> > >>>>on successful implementations > >>>> > >>>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent > >>>>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the > >>>>long-term target) > >>>> > >>>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent > >>>>direction towards convergence > >>>> > >>>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the > >>>> > >>>> > >>verge of a > >> > >> > >>>>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The > >>>> > >>>> > >>potential of > >> > >> > >>>>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's > >>>> > >>>> > >>potential is > >> > >> > >>>>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it, > >>>> > >>>> > >>business has > >> > >> > >>>>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all > >>>> > >>>> > >>want to build > >> > >> > >>>>it. > >>>> > >>>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless: > >>>> > >>>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between > >>>>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear > >>>> > >>>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate > >>>> > >>>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out > >>>>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire > >>>> > >>>> > >>movement) > >> > >> > >>>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these > >>>>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the > >>>>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe > >>>> > >>>> > >>it. There > >> > >> > >>>>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry > >>>> > >>>> > >>groups that > >> > >> > >>>>are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much > >>>>more complex than simple request-response models). > >>>> > >>>>That's it, I guess.... > >>>> > >>>>John > >>>>313.930.5323 > >>>> > >>>>Monica J. Martin wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>John, > >>>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>MacKenzie was > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>could provide > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its > >>>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>on ebSOA > >> > >> > >>>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>ebSOA would > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>ebXML. Your > >> > >> > >>>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>~~~~~~~~~ > >>>>john c hardin > >>>>sanghainteractive.com > >>>>313.930.5323 cell > >>>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com > >>>> > >>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in > >>>> > >>>> > >>the image > >> > >> > >>>>of a global village." > >>>> > >>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>~~~~~~~~~ > >>john c hardin > >>sanghainteractive.com > >>313.930.5323 cell > >>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com > >> > >>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in > >>the image of a global village." > >> > >> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >
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