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Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] BPSS 1.01 XML Schema element referencing with idand name issue


Sacha,

Looks good.  The only reason I guess for the redundancy in the
fromFoo and fromFooID is that it saves the lookup - and makes
the human readability easier.  I'm not complaining at that!

On the name front you may have two partners in a 
collaboration - and you send each of them 
"Parts Order Confirm" but for one you
use "schema-P1.xsd" and the other "schema-P1a.xsd".  It's 
nice to have the flexiblity - even if you would discourage
the practice.  It's also nice from the point of view of
having libraries of different pre-built document definitions,
that you drag and drop in - and then maybe edit afterwards - 
and they can have same names while you figure out those
edits.

DW.

Quoting Sacha Schlegel <sacha_oasis@schlegel.li>:

> Hi David
> 
> On Sat, 2003-11-22 at 01:45, David RR Webber wrote:
> > Sacha,
> > 
> > The way I've implemented this in VisualScript models is to use
> > them as cross-referencing - assuming the name is the human
> > friendly detail, and the ID is the shorthand notation for
> > cross-referencing.
> > 
> > So as you add business documents to your BPSS model
> > then go over and start to add business steps - those
> > documents show up as choices for the user to select
> > in the step.   Display the names as part of the choices,
> > and then key off the IDs for the software.
> > 
> > You can auto-generate IDs for the user if you do
> > not want them to have to mess with those.
> > 
> 
> Makes sense so far.
> 
> Its purely an XML style, I guess. No doubt the user should not deal with
> IDs. Let me explain in an example:
> 
> <Sample>
>   <Foo name="MyFoo" ID="foo_id"/>
>   <Bar name="MyBar" ID="bar_id" fromFoo="ABC" fromFooID="foo_id"/>
> </Sample>
> 
> I do not understand why Bar must have fromFoo AND fromFOOID. One is
> redundant, I think. One is enough and the better one is fromFooID, IMO.
> Using globally unique ID's is even better.
> 
> If you have to present to the user what Bar references, then you can get
> the name of Foo my searching for the ID of Foo. I think XML Parsers
> and/or XPath treat IDs specially for validation and for easy/quick
> search (actually not sure about this). Not a XML parser handles GUID
> similarly to ID. I think it is rather XML style or there are good
> reasons why to use both.
> 
> I see the need to make sure that ID's and names dont clash when
> importing/including other data or even that they have to be globally
> unique and hence using GUID/GUIDREF. You then even can have something
> like MD5 Checksums associated with XML elements with GUID so you could
> check the integrity of an element by comparing the checksum...
> 
> > It also allows you to have the same business document
> > name - but say different schema or CAM templates
> > associated with it - and the software is able to distinguish
> > the references OK.
> 
> Sorry I dont get this one. Might be a different story. Having a XML
> instance which is valid for different schemas? Never thought of that...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sacha
> 
> 
> > 
> > Does this make sense?
> > 
> > Thanks, DW.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Sacha Schlegel" <sacha_oasis@schlegel.li>
> > To: <ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] BPSS 1.01 XML Schema element referencing with
> idand
> > name issue
> > 
> > 
> > > Hi bp group
> > >
> > > OK I have a sample of the name and ID issue:
> > >
> > > <ProcessSpecification ...>
> > >   ...
> > >   <BusinessDocument name="ABC" nameID="ABC_ID">
> > >   ...
> > >   ...
> > >   <BusinessTransaction name="Trans1" nameID="Trans1_ID">
> > >     <RequestingBusinessActivity name="ReqBizA" nameID="ReqBizA_ID" ...>
> > >
> > >       <!-- here the BusinessDocument gets referenced -->
> > >       <!----------------------------------------------->
> > >       <DocumentEnvelope businessDocument="ABC"
> > > businessDocumentIDREF="ABC_ID" .../>
> > >
> > >
> > >     </RequestingBusinessAcitivty>
> > >     ...
> > >   </BusinessTransaction>
> > >   ...
> > > </ProcessSpecification>
> > >
> > >
> > > I did not read up on any "How to engineer XML documents", or UBL's
> > > "Rules how to write an XML Schema" ...
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Sacha
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 21:49, Sacha Schlegel wrote:
> > > > Hi bp group
> > > >
> > > > Studing the BPSS XML Schema from the "ebXML Business Process
> > > > Specification Version 1.01" I came across the following issue:
> > > >
> > > > Whenever an element X references another element Y there is a) the
> name
> > > > (required) of element Y AND b) the ID (optional) of element Y given as
> > > > an attribute of the X element.
> > > >
> > > > Sample from 1.01 Appendix A:
> > > >
> > > > ....actually the sample bpss of 1.01 does not use ID's at all but only
> > > > names...
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the 1.1 BPSS still the name attribute and the ID attribute
> > > > are in elements.
> > > >
> > > > To me, only the ID attribute makes sense as with the ID I can get to
> the
> > > > name of the element. Or even having only one, the ID or the name.
> Having
> > > > both, the name AND ID, this invites to have logically invalid BPSS XML
> > > > instance documents.
> > > >
> > > > If this issue has been addressed in a post 1.01 version then please
> > > > ignore this email.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards.
> > > >
> > > > Sacha
> > > -- 
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > Sacha                                   Schlegel
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > 4 Warwick Str, 6102 St. James, Perth,  Australia
> > > sacha@schlegel.li                www.schlegel.li
> > > public key:            www.schlegel.li/sacha.gpg
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > !DSPAM:3fbe4f59101291758211259!
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------
> Sacha                                   Schlegel
> ------------------------------------------------
> 4 Warwick Str, 6102 St. James, Perth,  Australia
> sacha@schlegel.li                www.schlegel.li
> public key:            www.schlegel.li/sacha.gpg
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


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