Re: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding

["David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>]

Anders,

I do not believe that tinkering with the schema will solve
this long term.  Its a fundamental architecture issue and
therefore you need to have a means to manage
context.

If you get a headache once in a while you can take
an aspirin, but if you get headaches every hour,
then you have to treat the cause.

The other issue with tweaking at the schema
level is that this is not apparent to the business
analyst at the CPA level.  You have no way of
indicating what "tweaks" may or may not be
significant for a given CPA, and also even if
your partner can support this - if and when you
apply a tweak.  Schema inheritance has side
effects here that are not beneficial.

Also - I'm not selling nails here, just because
I own a hammer.  Context is a fundamental
architecture component - and this was never
addressed in the original ebXML work. It
was a "to do" that never got done.

Now we need to correct this and we have
the opportunity in the F2F to construct an
open neutral XML mechanism that can
be used by a range of XML tools.  I disagree
that the namespace is problematic - infact
I'd argue that inheritance is much more
potentially problematic - see discussion of
schema issues @
http://xml.gov/presentations.asp

than using a simple XML structure to
pass context consistently.  Also - as
Lars showed - late binding potentially
requires access to documents and
external resolution - so again -
XSD cannot support this for you
fully in the way you proposed.

Anyway - I have had feedback from
people offline on the context draft - so
I'm working on improving the details
and clarifying it in line with what Lars
posted this week already.

I should have an updated version
ready tomorrow COB after I had
chance for comments back on these
edits and additions.

Hopefully this will make it much clearer -
since most of the comments were already
covered - I just had not explained it all
well enough it seems - a common problem!

Thanks, DW.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anders W. Tell" <anderst@toolsmiths.se>
To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: <ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding


> David, I prefer to approach the issues at hand using structured approach
> in order to gain knowledge before resorting to generic solution. I try
> to avoid "If you have a hammer then all problems look like a nail".
>
> David RR Webber wrote:
>
> > DW: What the BCM and CAM work teaches us is that these factors that
> > "bubble up" here to the CPA are the "big ticket" ones.
> >
>
> "BCM and CAM work teaches us"  ... "bubble up" ???
>
> >>* How can "overriding" be used to create a "natural" way of defining
> >>timing or other constraints?
> >>
> >>
> > DW: By tying it to the existing BPSS structure.  We are not allowing
> > people to morph or extend the BPSS itself - so this is a naturally
> > constrained facility here.  The namespace bpss: is also intuitive way
> > to reference the BPSS elements.
> >
> >
>
> Using XML namespace prefixes in a sense that it means something in a
> specification is never a good solution. Simply because prefixes may not
> be preserved during XML parsing.
>
> >>* If you delegate the task of determining timeToPerform to a remote
> >>method, then what happens in case of invocation failure or timeout?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  DW:  We are NOT doing this.  The context is EXPLICTLY managed
> >  by the BPSS engine - by looking at the intersection of three factors:
> >  as:function() statements, bpss:reference(s) and doc:transaction
details.
> >  All these are within the BPSS environment and there are no external
> >  calls.
> >
> >
> Im not sure who you mean by we, but the method invocation was discussed
> during a conf call. If Im not misstaken it was brought up by Dale M.  It
> is IMHO a relevant suggestion that deserves attention and analysis.
>
>
> Thanks
> /Anders
>
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