Re: [ebxml-bp] Manual Operations in BPSS"

["David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>]

Duane,

That's one piece - the issue however is the TimeToPerform in the
BPSS steps themselves.

The recovery procedure would need to have flagged each step
as an "abandon", or "re-start" at design time.  So somethings
could be brought back up, otherwise would be just terminated
anyway if the recovery does not occur before the TimeToPerform
expires.

Another design feature may be an independent "its alive" check
that runs in the background - polling each system periodically.
If this process detects that certain participants are no longer
reachable - it could automatically alert others - and signal
that a restart-check-point should be captured.  But then
in a loosely coupled system - some participants may just
poll a drop-box periodically - that was the ICE model - where
delivery windows are agreed.

Suddenly occurs to me that something like Tuxedo with
some blending of ICE features might be the right model
here for us - no sense in re-inventing
the wheel - we can take a proven design and just show
how BPSS can support it to provide re-start recovery.

This definately sounds like a V4.0 feature though - re-start
recovery - and a whole separate technical note document....

Thanks, DW.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
To: <martin.me.roberts@bt.com>
Cc: <zbarch@rcn.com>; <ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Manual Operations in BPSS"


> The messaging, when implemented properly with CPA, can accomplish this.
>
> CPA specifies a "time to persist" for each in or outbound message.  If a
> system goes down, by building an audit trail of outgoing and incoming
> messages, it can determine the outward state of the process.  This
> places a dependency on using the CPA and a process script correctly.
>  CPA will work today however version 1.01 of BPSS did not (as I had
> noted in 2001 when I stood up in Vienna).
>
> The requirements on BPSS to perform an audit mean that it must be able
> to constrain each step and correlate each transaction from the messaging
> layer of the stack with a specific business signal in BPSS.
>
> I did an implement ability study two times and it failed but in light of
> the rapid advances in BPSS by this group, feel it may be time to try
> again.  I asked JJ if it was time back in September but he informed me
> not quite yet.
>
> If someone can verify that they feel this is complete enough to try
> again, I volunteer to try it then report any feedback to this group.
>
> Duane
>
> martin.me.roberts@bt.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Zinovy,
> >     We at BT have try to model exactly the same scenario.  The
> > presumption is that the BPSS is there to coordinate the state of
> > systems on both side of the partnership.
> >
> >   To make this work in BPSS 1.01 we have had to create 'manual'
> > BusinessTransactionActivities that in effect run the BPSS Transaction
> > in reverse.
> >     e.g normal we would expect a customer to conform that a fault has
> > been cleared after we have fixed it.  However, if they confirm ove
> > rthe phone rather than the B2B we send a notification to them telling
> > their systems that we had done this.
> >
> >     In the event of a massive failure there is currently no BPSS
> > command that is designed to synchronise the states of two enterprises
> > systems to align with manual transactions.  In our latest Face 2 Face
> > meeting we discussed the ideas around business failures but this did
> > not come up.
> >
> >     Sorry
> >
> > Martin Roberts
> > xml designer,
> > BT Exact
> > e-mail: martin.me.roberts@bt.com
> > tel: +44(0) 1473 609785  clickdial
> > <http://clickdial.bt.co.uk/clickdial?001609785.cld>
> > fax: +44(0) 1473 609834
> > Intranet Site :http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: ZBarch [mailto:zbarch@rcn.com]
> >     Sent: 16 February 2004 21:27
> >     To: ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org
> >     Subject: [ebxml-bp] Manual Operations in BPSS"
> >
> >     Dear all!
> >
> >     I have a practical question. Do we have a "Manual Operation" in
BPSS?
> >     Example: We have 3 party collaboration and one party has a major
> >     network failure (like we saw with American stock exchange last
> >     week). Can a party perform business transaction "manually", I mean
> >     outside of ebXML (web services) - via phone, fax or US Post mail
> >     and update
> >     results later?
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >     Zinovy
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Senior Standards Strategist
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://www.adobe.com
>
>
>
>