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If this is a serious tutorial it has to answer all the basic FAQ that adopters and implementers need - rather than being a very limited introduction that falls short of empowering people to start using BPSS today. Driving adoption is, as with all standards work, the biggest challenge - and providing an effective on-ramp to enable people to start using BPSS today for their daily business work and projects is a critical need. Thanks, DW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monica J. Martin" To: "David RR Webber" Cc: "BPSS ebXML" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2 PPT > > > Webber: > > http://drrw.net/visualscripts/BPSS-V2/Introducing%20BPSS%20V2%20-%20Tutorial.ppt > > > > > > This includes changes and updates as suggested by Monica, and all the > > latest feature stuff - including signals and more. > > > > mm1: David, comments included in the notes sections of the ppt. Sally > St. Amand also has indicated she would also review the presentation. > This brief should concentrate on the core ebBP v2.0 functionality rather > than tools and extensions. Thanks. > --0-2145514021-1089666448=:34569 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>David</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Some observations on your presentation<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> ebXML BPSS v2.0 BPM Tutorial How to Quickly Create Business Process Models</B>, July 2004:</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>First it is confusing. If it is intended to be a tutorial on BPSS v2.0 it goes beyond the scope of the effort to dispatch a version 2, which is suggested in the presentation.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>In slide 3 labeled OASIS ebXML in a Nutshell there is no mention of collaboration; business collaboration is the core of BPSS.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>In slide 6 & 8 I am assuming that the intent is to provide the big picture for BPSS. While I concur that BPSS is a core component of SOA I think there is less than certainty as to what the components are. Your getting ahead will undoubtedly lead to confusion. There is no argument that business process is integral to the next technology to be widely adopted in the ecommerce space. The question is how it is represented. There are several “answers” many of which on the surface appear alike. It is an arena requiring nuance to achieve the business goals.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>In slide 10 labeled Building a BPSS, you have included components outside of BPSS. In the subsequent slides you are presenting conclusions at the same time we are still formulating the nuances of v2.0. This puts your tutorial in the position of being the tail that ways the dog.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Slide 23 Collaboration Content & Context—creates an expectation that all 3 are being handled coequally in BPSS; they are not. Collaboration is the guts of BPSS; Content is an issue we are grappling with; Context is an important concept that needs to fully addressed. </FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Slide 30 labeled Completing a BPSS Template is premature.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>For example we to need to give further consideration to something as basic as whether a business transaction is atomic; this is based on a use case that was provided and discussed at some length by Matthew Arrott (CommerceNet). He introduced “listeners” who are not principles in the transaction, but play a role. His use case has given us a slightly different view (maybe 10° not a start over) that is representative of the nuance involved.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I could go on but hopefully these specifics make my point that what you are doing is good and useful. You are just a little bit ahead of your time; thank you Panasonic.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Sally</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></P><BR><BR><B><I>David RR Webber <david@drrw.info></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Monica,<BR><BR>Good - I look forward to Sally's comments as well.<BR><BR>I have to say though that there appears to be a gap<BR>between what I have already been able to implement<BR>and demonstrate, and am actively involved in projects<BR>developing - and what you think BPSS is.<BR><BR>BPSS is different things to different people,<BR>and that obviously does not mean that everyone is<BR>right, or everyone is wrong. People will find good<BR>and interesting ways of working with the specification.<BR><BR>I'm also responding to the many postings we keep getting<BR>to the list - saying - but there's an issue on how this works -<BR>etc, when we already have answers to most all of these -<BR>and therefore we need to have a ready reference where<BR>people can go to to get those, and keep updating it with<BR>new parts - as a living document - as we move forward.<BR><BR>Also - I'm trying to provide a complete presentation.<BR>From my long experience as VP Biz Dev - there are<BR>questions you have to answer in a presentation - and<BR>you cannot just sweep them off to the side. And we<BR>want to encourage people to send us details we<BR>can include - as they develop great examples and<BR>resource sites, and so on.<BR><BR>If this is a serious tutorial it has to answer all the<BR>basic FAQ that adopters and implementers need - rather<BR>than being a very limited introduction that falls short of<BR>empowering people to start using BPSS today.<BR><BR>Driving adoption is, as with all standards work, the biggest<BR>challenge - and providing an effective on-ramp to enable<BR>people to start using BPSS today for their daily business<BR>work and projects is a critical need.<BR><BR>Thanks, DW<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Monica J. Martin" <MONICA.MARTIN@SUN.COM><BR>To: "David RR Webber" <DAVID@DRRW.INFO><BR>Cc: "BPSS ebXML" <EBXML-BP@LISTS.OASIS-OPEN.ORG><BR>Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 10:51 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2 PPT<BR><BR><BR>><BR>> > Webber:<BR>> ><BR>http://drrw.net/visualscripts/BPSS-V2/Introducing%20BPSS%20V2%20-%20Tutorial.ppt<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > This includes changes and updates as suggested by Monica, and all the<BR>> > latest feature stuff - including signals and more.<BR>> ><BR>><BR>> mm1: David, comments included in the notes sections of the ppt. Sally<BR>> St. Amand also has indicated she would also review the presentation.<BR>> This brief should concentrate on the core ebBP v2.0 functionality rather<BR>> than tools and extensions. Thanks.<BR>><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> --0-2145514021-1089666448=:34569--
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