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Sally,
It is indeed true that I am approaching this from
the "big picture" - "How to do Business Process" -
and defining that from a "BCM style" perspective -
and then showing how BPSS goes about
doing its thing. So there are slides where
the complete picture is presented. I believe that is
essential - as people will be using BPSS with a mix
of components - and they need to
understand *all* that and the steps they have
to think about. It also demonstrates our
competency in understanding that whole
picture. That's the intent of the Section 1 - that
talks about what the BP world is - so we
establish the common ground.
Now - it would also seem that BPSS V2 schema is
playing 'catch-up' with the that
big world and PPT
view very rapidly!
The new variables feature-set discussed on todays
call clearly implements the
context aspects.
At this point however - I think we need to call a
little bit of a truce on getting this
tutorial finished! ; -)
Once John and Dale provide us with the new and
improved Schema - then I can
re-visit on all this.
What this is teaching us however - that aiming high
is a good thing. Where I'm
coming from here - is based on working on IV&I
and other projects this past
year - and seeing that *if* BPSS can address most
all the aspects that this
PPT is talking to - then indeed we will have the
technology of choice for
implementers and designers. Notice I
did (amazingly!) leave off the field
known V3 features however.
It's this core V2 functional set that I'm wanting
to showcase and articulate -
because I do firmly believe we have a unique chance
here to seize the
initiative and show people that BPSS gives you the
most comprehensive
and sensible toolset today for modelling BPM -
without being "exotic" -
and is therefore something that average people can
aspire too.
We can do this using V2 right now - as the model
generates a fully
compliant V2 XML instance [well it did till Dale
and John changed
everything last week ; -) - and that's good though
I'm not complaining!].
Being able to take the "swim lane" activity
diagrams that people seem
so fond of - and make them into real working BPSS -
is critical. I now
believe we are almost to that point - for both
binary and multiparty
collaborations - as I just demonstrated with
Matthew's scenario.
And the more of these 'worked example' templates we
have the
easier this will become.
So - summarizing - yes - the PPT is setting the bar
high - and I believe
our release V2 will be able to meet this
challenge. It is about a
synergy of all these components - and we should not
be afraid of
showing people how they can do all these aspects -
with real
examples that they can follow.
I had some feedback today - where someone thanked
me - as
having read the UN specification 1.10 - and read
the tutorial - they
were able to see why and how V2 is delivering a
better product,
and one that they can understand how to use - as
opposed to
a cold specification that is interesting but
academic.
If we don't go there, who else will?
Cheers, DW.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for
BPSS V2 PPT
David
Some observations on your presentation ebXML BPSS v2.0 BPM Tutorial How to
Quickly Create Business Process Models, July 2004:
First it is confusing. If it is intended to be a tutorial on BPSS v2.0
it goes beyond the scope of the effort to dispatch a version 2, which is
suggested in the presentation.
In slide 3 labeled OASIS ebXML in a Nutshell there is no mention of
collaboration; business collaboration is the core of BPSS.
In slide 6 & 8 I am assuming that the intent is to provide the big
picture for BPSS. While I concur that BPSS is a core component of SOA I think
there is less than certainty as to what the components are. Your getting ahead
will undoubtedly lead to confusion. There is no argument that business process
is integral to the next technology to be widely adopted in the ecommerce
space. The question is how it is represented. There are several “answers” many
of which on the surface appear alike. It is an arena requiring nuance to
achieve the business goals.
In slide 10 labeled Building a BPSS, you have included components
outside of BPSS. In the subsequent slides you are presenting conclusions at
the same time we are still formulating the nuances of v2.0. This puts your
tutorial in the position of being the tail that ways the dog.
Slide 23 Collaboration Content & Context—creates an expectation
that all 3 are being handled coequally in BPSS; they are not. Collaboration is
the guts of BPSS; Content is an issue we are grappling with; Context is an
important concept that needs to fully addressed.
Slide 30 labeled Completing a BPSS Template is premature.
For example we to need to give further consideration to something as
basic as whether a business transaction is atomic; this is based on a use case
that was provided and discussed at some length by Matthew Arrott
(CommerceNet). He introduced “listeners” who are not principles in the
transaction, but play a role. His use case has given us a slightly different
view (maybe 10° not a start over) that is representative of the nuance
involved.
I could go on but hopefully these specifics make my point that what you
are doing is good and useful. You are just a little bit ahead of your time;
thank you Panasonic.
Sally
David RR
Webber <david@drrw.info> wrote:
Monica,
Good
- I look forward to Sally's comments as well.
I have to say though
that there appears to be a gap
between what I have already been able to
implement
and demonstrate, and am actively involved in
projects
developing - and what you think BPSS is.
BPSS is
different things to different people,
and that obviously does not mean
that everyone is
right, or everyone is wrong. People will find
good
and interesting ways of working with the specification.
I'm
also responding to the many postings we keep getting
to the list - saying
- but there's an issue on how this works -
etc, when we already have
answers to most all of these -
and therefore we need to have a ready
reference where
people can go to to get those, and keep updating it
with
new parts - as a living document - as we move forward.
Also -
I'm trying to provide a complete presentation.
From my long experience as
VP Biz Dev - there are
questions you have to answer in a presentation -
and
you cannot just sweep them off to the side. And we
want to
encourage people to send us details we
can include - as they develop
great examples and
resource sites, and so on.
If this is a serious
tutorial it has to answer all the
basic FAQ that adopters and
implementers need - rather
than being a very limited introduction that
falls short of
empowering people to start using BPSS
today.
Driving adoption is, as with all standards work, the
biggest
challenge - and providing an effective on-ramp to
enable
people to start using BPSS today for their daily business
work
and projects is a critical need.
Thanks, DW
----- Original
Message -----
From: "Monica J. Martin" <MONICA.MARTIN@SUN.COM>
To:
"David RR Webber" <DAVID@DRRW.INFO>
Cc: "BPSS ebXML"
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 10:51
PM
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2
PPT
>
> > Webber:
>
>
http://drrw.net/visualscripts/BPSS-V2/Introducing%20BPSS%20V2%20-%20Tutorial.ppt
>
>
> >
> > This includes changes and updates as
suggested by Monica, and all the
> > latest feature stuff -
including signals and more.
> >
>
> mm1: David,
comments included in the notes sections of the ppt. Sally
> St. Amand
also has indicated she would also review the presentation.
> This
brief should concentrate on the core ebBP v2.0 functionality rather
>
than tools and extensions.
Thanks.
>
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