Re: Fwd: Re: [ebxml-cppa-comment] AW: Re: [ebxml-cppa-negot] Issues for Discussion: templates and dummy values

[Martin Sachs <msachs@cyclonecommerce.com>]

Monica,

I think that your question will be best answered as the SC goes forward 
with the negotiation specification.

My personal opinion is that it should not be necessary to clutter either 
the CPPA schema or the NDD with default/dummy indicators. I also can't 
conceive of a mechanism that could detect the difference between default 
and dummy values since dummy values have to be valid with respect to the 
CPPA schema.

It should be sufficient to put a non-normative note in the spec. advising 
the party creating a CPA template to put usable default values into all 
elements and attributes describing itself that are negotiable in case the 
other party does not propose changing them.

Another, perhaps simpler, alternative is to include a non-normative note 
reminding both parties to check that the final CPA does not contain 
left-over unusable dummy values before approving it. This note could be 
embodied in the negotiation software as a reminder message displayed at the 
point where the parties are about to check the proposed final CPA for 
completeness.

There is no guarantee that the party composing the CPA Template and NDD 
will not make mistakes in the default/dummy indicators. Thus default/dummy 
indicators are no more reliable than non-normative reminders I mentioned above.

Regards,
Marty


At 04:41 PM 9/26/2004, Monica J. Martin wrote:
>Martin Sachs wrote:
>
>>Re-sending to correct a typo in the third paragraph (bold, italic, caps).
>>
>>
>>>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:19:05 -0400
>>>To: "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>
>>>From: Martin Sachs <msachs@cyclonecommerce.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa-comment] AW: Re: [ebxml-cppa-negot] Issues for 
>>>Discussion: templates and dummy values
>>>Cc: "Vetter, Michael" <Michael.Vetter@iao.fraunhofer.de>, Sacha Schlegel 
>>><sacha_oasis@schlegel.li>, ebxml-cppa-comment 
>>><ebxml-cppa-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>, ebxml-cppa-negot 
>>><ebxml-cppa-negot@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>
>>>Default values are actual "usable" values of attributes and 
>>>elements.  Default values are the values in a party's CPP. In the 
>>>absence of need for negotiation, a CPA can be constructed using the two 
>>>parties' CPPs and the resulting CPA is a usable CPA containing both 
>>>parties' default values.
>>>
>>>The NDD is supposed to indicate all elements and attributes that the 
>>>party composing the NDD is prepared to negotiate. Dummy values are 
>>>values provided in the CPA Template for elements and attributes that the 
>>>party composing the CPA Template is prepared to negotiate with the other 
>>>party but doesn't know suitable default values. Dummy values can be any 
>>>values that enable the CPA Template to be validated against the CPPA schema.
>>>
>>>As a result of the above, all elements and attributes in the CPA 
>>>Template that contain default values are indicated in the NDD. Note that 
>>>the NDD doesn't indicate the difference between a default value and a 
>>>dummy value. However, since everything in the NDD has to be negotiated 
>>>or at least accepted by the other party, it isn't clear that it matters 
>>>whether a given value is a default value or a dummy value. It does seem 
>>>that if the party composing the NDD expects that some elements and 
>>>attributes in the CPA Template might be accepted */AS IS/*, that party 
>>>ought put usable default values in the attributes and elements of the 
>>>CPA Template that describe its own properties.
>mm1: Therefore, we should have a mechanism to determine if a value is a 
>dummy or a default, correct?
>
>>>The party composing the CPA Template should use dummy values only for 
>>>elements and attributes that describe the other party, where the party 
>>>composing the CPA Template does not know suitable default values. The 
>>>other party can then modify those dummy values as part of the negotiation.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Marty
>
>

*************************************
Martin Sachs
standards architect
Cyclone Commerce
msachs@cyclonecommerce.com