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Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" inLegalProceedings
And remember all...... XML tags are just for the transport of data from system to system, not for the user of any CMS/DMS system. Whatever any court CMS/DMS system chooses to title the items for the presentation to hte user is COMPLETELY separate from what we call the tags for us techies to know which fields to transfer data in to other systems. -----Original Message----- From: Winters, Roger [mailto:Roger.Winters@METROKC.GOV] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:54 AM To: 'Mohyeddin Abdulaziz'; 'Chambers, Rolly' Cc: 'legalxml-courtfiling(a)lists.oasis-open.org' Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" in LegalPr oceedings I hope these observations help in the discussion. I also wonder whether this issue has been resolved by another technical committee in some other specification developed for another purpose. I think the difference between "title" and "role" can be clarified by recognizing that titles are usually officially-assigned labels, where roles are usually functions or perhaps relationships. I think of a title as something a person receives, e.g., "Doctor" for one who has the appropriate degree and license, "Judge" for the judicial officer with the decision-making authority, "Clerk of Court" for the elected or appointed clerk. Sometimes a title might become an element in the person's name, i.e., used as a <NamePrefix> or something like that. There is a certain formality in assigning a title understood in this sense. It would be a much looser practice, I think, to designate someone "Juror Smith," or "Rodeo Clown Winters," as though formal titles; more likely, the reference would be to "Smith, the juror," or "Winters, the rodeo clown." Rather than being titles, those designations are roles because they are functions for the person. On getting a title, one tends to keep it. An "Attorney at Law" was admitted to the bar and styles herself as such unless and until disbarred. The "Judge" is perhaps separated from the decision making authority upon retirement, but the title is generally retained as a matter of respect. It still makes sense to me to call that a title. Beyond this, I think, are roles or attributes. To specify the person's role and relationship may require some root terms with attributes for the variations in detail. For example, being a "district attorney" is a role that can be defined as "representing state authority in law cases." The Chief District Attorney might have that title, but also has the role <prosecutor> (I'm just guessing what the terms ultimately settled on might be). Lower in the hierarchy, someone is also a "district attorney" in terms of the role assigned, but that might be modified by an attribute of "assistant" or "associate" or "civil" or "criminal." This is what makes sense to me as a user of words. Since I am not a programmer nor XML master, I can't say whether that carries over. My 2-cents (adjusted for inflation). Roger Roger Winters Electronic Court Records Manager King County Department of Judicial Administration 516 Third Avenue, E-609 MS: KCC-JA-0609 Seattle, Washington 98104 V: (206) 296-7838 F: (206) 296-0906 roger.winters@metrokc.gov -----Original Message----- From: Mohyeddin Abdulaziz [mailto:abdulaziz@apltwo.ct.state.az.us] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:25 AM To: Chambers, Rolly Cc: legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" in LegalProceedings Greetings, I think that many items, especially in the <judicialOfficer> category can be both "title" and "role". I do not agree that the <role> tag should be replaced by a <title> tag. Both are needed. A "chief judge" is a title who has a "role" in managing the court and may have a role as a "judge" in a case or more specifically a role as an "author" in a decision or opinion. I suggest adding "judge pro tem" to the "judicialOfficer" category and the following to the attorney category (as used in Arizona): legal defender assistant legal defender county attorney deputy county attorney attorney general assistant attorney general "Chambers, Rolly" wrote: > What is the difference between a title and a role as you see it? Are you > suggesting that the specific "roles" should be marked up with a "title" > tag instead of a "role" tag? > > If so, I don't have a problem with the concept. The Data Dictionary > contains a "Title" element, but it is used for motor vehicle title > information rather than the title of a person. Will the different > "Title" elements be reconciled by the Data Dictionary group? > > As for duplicates in the list of specific roles, just strike one of > them. > > Rolly Chambers > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin_Gibson@osca.state.mo.us > Sent: Tue 11/12/2002 9:47 AM > To: Chambers, Rolly; legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" > in Legal Proceedings > > > > Before this list is provided to the Data Dictionary group, I > highly > recommend that each of the proposed "roles" includes a brief > description to > differentiate them from one another. This will help the task > force to > condense duplicates from various sources. At first glance, they > appear to > be titles (or perhaps relationships) rather than roles . For > example, in > the JudicialOfficer listing, I am not able to differentiate the > difference > between some of the items listed-- what is the difference in > "role" between > a circuit judge and a circuit court judge? > > Robin > > Robin Gibson > Information Technology Division > Office of State Courts Administrator > robin_gibson@osca.state.mo.us > 573-751-4377 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: winmail.dat > winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: BASE64 ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl> Allen Jensen Orange County Superior Court Internet Development / EFiling 949.472.6946
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