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Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" inLegalProceedings


And remember all......  XML tags are just for the transport of data from
system to system, not for the user of any CMS/DMS system.  

Whatever any court CMS/DMS system chooses to title the items for the
presentation to hte user is COMPLETELY separate from what we call the
tags for us techies to know which fields to transfer data in to other
systems.



-----Original Message-----
From: Winters, Roger [mailto:Roger.Winters@METROKC.GOV] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:54 AM
To: 'Mohyeddin Abdulaziz'; 'Chambers, Rolly'
Cc: 'legalxml-courtfiling(a)lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" in
LegalPr oceedings


I hope these observations help in the discussion. I also wonder whether
this
issue has been resolved by another technical committee in some other
specification developed for another purpose. I think the difference
between
"title" and "role" can be clarified by recognizing that titles are
usually
officially-assigned labels, where roles are usually functions or
perhaps
relationships. 

I think of a title as something a person receives, e.g., "Doctor" for
one
who has the appropriate degree and license, "Judge" for the judicial
officer
with the decision-making authority, "Clerk of Court" for the elected
or
appointed clerk. Sometimes a title might become an element in the
person's
name, i.e., used as a <NamePrefix> or something like that. There is a
certain formality in assigning a title understood in this sense. It
would be
a much looser practice, I think, to designate someone "Juror Smith,"
or
"Rodeo Clown Winters," as though formal titles; more likely, the
reference
would be to "Smith, the juror," or "Winters, the rodeo clown." Rather
than
being titles, those designations are roles because they are functions
for
the person.

On getting a title, one tends to keep it. An "Attorney at Law" was
admitted
to the bar and styles herself as such unless and until disbarred. The
"Judge" is perhaps separated from the decision making authority upon
retirement, but the title is generally retained as a matter of respect.
It
still makes sense to me to call that a title. 

Beyond this, I think, are roles or attributes. To specify the person's
role
and relationship may require some root terms with attributes for the
variations in detail. For example, being a "district attorney" is a
role
that can be defined as "representing state authority in law cases."
The
Chief District Attorney might have that title, but also has the role
<prosecutor> (I'm just guessing what the terms ultimately settled on
might
be). Lower in the hierarchy, someone is also a "district attorney" in
terms
of the role assigned, but that might be modified by an attribute of
"assistant" or "associate" or "civil" or "criminal." 

This is what makes sense to me as a user of words. Since I am not a
programmer nor XML master, I can't say whether that carries over.

My 2-cents (adjusted for inflation).

Roger

Roger Winters
Electronic Court Records Manager
King County
Department of Judicial Administration
516 Third Avenue, E-609 MS: KCC-JA-0609
Seattle, Washington 98104
V: (206) 296-7838 F: (206) 296-0906
roger.winters@metrokc.gov 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mohyeddin Abdulaziz [mailto:abdulaziz@apltwo.ct.state.az.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:25 AM
To: Chambers, Rolly
Cc: legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org 
Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" in
LegalProceedings

Greetings,

I think that many items, especially in the <judicialOfficer> category
can be
both "title" and "role".  I do not agree that the <role> tag should be
replaced by a <title> tag.  Both are needed.  A "chief judge" is a
title who
has a "role" in managing the court and may have a role as a "judge" in
a
case
or more specifically a role as an "author" in a decision or opinion.

I suggest adding "judge pro tem" to the "judicialOfficer" category and
the
following to the attorney category (as used in Arizona):

legal defender
assistant legal defender
county attorney
deputy county attorney
attorney general
assistant attorney general

"Chambers, Rolly" wrote:

> What is the difference between a title and a role as you see it? Are
you
> suggesting that the specific "roles" should be marked up with a
"title"
> tag instead of a "role" tag?
>
> If so, I don't have a problem with the concept. The Data Dictionary
> contains a "Title" element, but it is used for motor vehicle title
> information rather than the title of a person. Will the different
> "Title" elements be reconciled by the Data Dictionary group?
>
> As for duplicates in the list of specific roles, just strike one of
> them.
>
> Rolly Chambers
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Robin_Gibson@osca.state.mo.us 
>         Sent: Tue 11/12/2002 9:47 AM
>         To: Chambers, Rolly;
legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org 
>         Cc:
>         Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of
"Roles"
> in Legal Proceedings
>
>
>
>         Before this list is provided to the Data Dictionary group, I
> highly
>         recommend that each of the proposed "roles" includes a brief
> description to
>         differentiate them from one another.  This will help the
task
> force to
>         condense duplicates from various sources.  At first glance,
they
> appear to
>         be titles (or perhaps relationships) rather than roles . 
For
> example, in
>         the JudicialOfficer listing, I am not able to differentiate
the
> difference
>         between some of the items listed-- what is the difference in
> "role" between
>         a circuit judge and a circuit court judge?
>
>         Robin
>
>         Robin Gibson
>         Information Technology Division
>         Office of State Courts Administrator
>         robin_gibson@osca.state.mo.us 
>         573-751-4377
>
>
>  
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>                   Name: winmail.dat
>    winmail.dat    Type: application/ms-tnef
>               Encoding: BASE64


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Allen Jensen
Orange County Superior Court
Internet Development / EFiling
949.472.6946




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