Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations

["jmessing" <jmessing@law-on-line.com>]

I think taking Bill's health care power of attorney, the person granting the power of attorney, called the principal, goes to a notary. This is a human interface. The notary witnesses the signing by the principal. This can be an electronic signature using many different kinds of technologies and still being valid under UETA and ESign. The notary then signs as a witness to the electronic signature. This second signature can be electronic also, indicating a second electronic interface.

The witnessing of the signature however is non-electronic, particularly if we follow the BC Supreme Court's requirements and analysis. The recordation of the witnessing however, is electronic. If Enjoa or a similar biometric recording instrument is available, there is an additional electronic interface that records in the notary's records the transaction. Again, this is an electronic interface.

In the next transaction, the notary generates duplicate originals of the power, sometimes called certified copies. The notary is not witnessing the principal's signature, but is comparing the original to the duplicate originals and certifying them as true. Since these are electronic documents, an electronic interface is required. In this case, an automated process is probably sufficient and perhaps superior to a human one because hashes can verify exactness of copies with mathematical precision, while humans have to proofread.

I think this begins to answer Nick's question as to Bill's health power of attorney use case.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From:         WROSCH Thomas E <Thomas.E.Wrosch@state.or.us>
Reply-To:     WROSCH Thomas E <Thomas.E.Wrosch@state.or.us>
Date:          Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:20:08 -0800

>Bill and John's cases are the examples I was thinking of, and I think are
>typical of the notarizations that are seen throughout the country. There are,
>of course, many others that might be high volume for one state but not for
>others, such as notarized initiative petitions, drivers licenses, certified
>copies (many states don't allow those).
>
>In light of my assignment, all I can think of doing is to address Nick's
>questions of electronic interfaces for perhaps two or three cases. Is that
>right? In other words, document today's process (using John and Bill's work)
>and identify the hand-off/interfaces?
>
>My thought is to use John's mortgage document scenario, especially in view of
>PRIA's work, and Bill's notarized affidavit (with John's apostille), which are
>very typical use cases. The latter would be representative as well of a number
>of adoption type transactions and forms that go to a government; the former is
>good for recording purposes, and perhaps would apply somewhat equally to court
>filings.
>
>What I don't see is the strictly B2B transaction, which is most likely to be
>wholly electronic, if any are. John's mortgage transaction implies it, under
>shipped to various parties. In fact, the electronically recorded documents
>I've seen had a set up of Escrow closing (notarization) to bank to county
>recorder.
>
>I like Nick's graphic (I'm technologically challenged here), but I'm not sure
>how to incorporate it into this scheme.
>
>Tom
>
>Tom Wrosch
>Office of the Secretary of State
>State of Oregon
>thomas.e.wrosch@state.or.us
>(503) 986-1522
>fax: (503) 986-1616
>
>>>> banderson@nationalnotary.org 3/18/2004 2:57:00 PM >>>
>Another case:
>
>A signer needs to a durable power of attorney for health care notarized
>granting authority to a designated agent in the event he/she is unable to
>make health care decisions. He/she goes to the Notary, has the document
>notarized, and then requests the Notary to certify x number of copies of the
>POA to distribute to his/her physician, next of kin, pastor, yadi, yada. In
>this scenario, no document is publicly recorded, but is retained by the
>interested parties until the time of need.
>
>Another case:
>
>Person A wishes to sponsor person B, a non-naturalized citizen of another
>country who is residing in the U.S. Person A must complete an affidavit of
>support (go here: http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-134.pdf ).
>
>After Person A swears the oath and has his/her signature notarized, the form
>is submitted to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. This scenario
>is one in which a federal arm of the U.S. requires a notarial act.
>
>BTW, John M. that "little book" in your scenario is actually quite large,
>and if Enjoa is used, is completely electronic! ;)
>
>Regards,
>
>Bill
>
>William A. Anderson
>Notary Affairs Manager
>National Notary Association
>818.739.4064
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nick Pope [mailto:pope@secstan.com]
>Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:35 AM
>To: ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG
>Subject: Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations
>
>John,
>
>Having identified these scenarios it is possible to identify the points
>where interfaces to the electronic domain may occur? At what point would
>the documents become electronic. What forms of authentication would
>involve electronic interactions?
>
>Nick
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ABA-OASIS [mailto:ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG]On Behalf Of jmessing
>> Sent: 17 March 2004 14:28
>> To: ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations
>>
>>
>> Let me make a first stab at a couple of use cases. Anyone else
>> please feel free to jump in to add, correct, or comment.
>>
>> 1. Standard notarization for mortgage origination. Signer
>> presents him/herself at a title company office to close a
>> residential real estate transaction and is presented with a stack
>> of papers several inches thick. Some need to be notarized, others
>> just signed. The notarized documents generally relate to
>> documents that will be recorded in a land office where they will
>> be publicly accessible. These may include the deed to the
>> property, a mortgage to secure the loan on the property, and/or a
>> deed of trust in favor of the lender, which will secure the new
>> loan of the buyer. A notary witnesses the signing, has the signer
>> sign a little book containing all such witnessed transactions in
>> consecutive order, and affixes his/her own signature and seal to
>> the notarized documents. The documents are shipped off to their
>> various destinations, with the notarized ones winding up in the
>> public registry. When recording is completed, the loan is funded,
>> the transaction closes, and life goes on.
>>
>> 2. Apostille. Let's say the buyer in the previous example dies
>> and leaves the house to a foreign relative, a UK citizen, who
>> wishes to sell his/her interest in it to another UK resident. The
>> prospective purchaser of the property wants to be sure that the
>> prior sale to the decedent was valid and in the course of doing
>> his/her due diligence, seeks assurance that the notary involved
>> in the previous sale transaction was a valid notary. By means of
>> a procedure with the office of the Secretary of State of the
>> jurisdiction where the house is located, a certification can be
>> obtained that the notary was in fact a notary, that the signature
>> of the notary is valid, and the seal is genuine. This is done by
>> a person in the Secretary of State's office. A check is made of
>> the signature and seal on file as against the ones appearing on
>> the documents containing the signature and seal to be certified
>> as valid. A check is also made of the effective date of the
>> notary's commission. If all check!
>> s out properly, the certification is sent to England, the
>> interest is transferred, and life again goes on.
>>
>> In the second example, there was no in person contact with the
>> notary initiated by the Secretary of State.
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> From: Nick Pope < pope@secstan.com >
>> Reply-To: Nick Pope < pope@secstan.com >
>> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:41:53 -0000
>>
>> >John and all in the enotary group.
>> >
>> >Following on from our meeting are tried to think further on what
>> is required
>> >for analysing the requirements for e-notarisation and found
>> myself heading
>> >off to the newly found planet Sedna.
>> >
>> >Anyway here goes: What I believe is needed is something that
>> considered the
>> >entities involved in use case of notarisation, their role in the
>> different
>> >forms of authentication and how this would interface to the electronic
>> >domain.
>> >
>> >For example, is the document presented by the subject in electronic form?
>> >Is identity authentication done in non-electronic domain? Does
>> information
>> >concerning the identity authentication need to be represented in the
>> >electronic domain? ...........
>> >
>> >I attach a picture of the entities and authentications involved. For an
>> >example use case can the work flow be identified?
>> >
>> >Hope this helps.
>> >
>> >Nick
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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