Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations

["jmessing" <jmessing@law-on-line.com>]

This gets into what is called batch processing in an electronic environment.

With an electronic workflow, the boss could have a list of bonds that had been prepared and double-checked by a subordinate, click a button, and properly state to the notary that he had just signed them all in her presence in the morning. Assuming the application worked as intended and there were no glitches, this would be true. The notary could then batch notarize each signature by an application that looped through the list of bonds, which would represented by an index of sorts. The whole group could be processed in seconds. The electronic signatures of the boss would be affixed in the presence of the notary, although they would not necessarily be affixed individually, but rather in a batch. In this regard, electronification of the processes would obviate a technical legal insufficency in the manual signing scenario of wet signatures described by Bill, because the signings there did not technically take place in the presence of the notary.

At least that is my view of it. The dependency upon the application's accuracy should be referenced in the notarization in my view for proper audit purposes.

Obviously, the more the notarization(s) depend upon automated processes, the more controversial the entire proposition becomes, but it nonetheless does have some advantages to electronify these processes, where deviations like the one Bill built into his example are tolerated for the most part out of a need for practicality in the workplace.

We have had at least one similar case involving computer processing in Arizona courts, where, if I recall correctly, processes were allowed to establish an outcome using the business records exception to the hearsay rule, but not it was not in the notarial area.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From:         Bill Anderson <banderson@nationalnotary.org>
Reply-To:     Bill Anderson <banderson@nationalnotary.org>
Date:          Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:35:58 -0800

>Another different case based in a corporate setting:
>
>A Notary bonding and insurance company must process upwards to 250 Notary
>bonds a day, all requiring notarization. A clerk in the office (a Notary)
>records the journal entries for the bonds and individually notarizes each
>after they are signed by her boss, whom she personally knows. The bonds are
>notarized with an acknowledgment. Due to the high volume, the boss signs
>them all at home the night before and then appears in person before the
>clerk to acknowledge the signatures on the bonds the next morning and sign
>the journal entries. The date of notarization is the morning the boss
>appears before the clerk, not the night before when the bonds are signed.
>
>In this scenario, high volume of one type of document is the ticket. This
>could be a bond, a mortgage satisfaction or assignment. All are done in high
>volume.
>
>William A. Anderson
>Notary Affairs Manager
>National Notary Association
>818.739.4064
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: WROSCH Thomas E [mailto:Thomas.E.Wrosch@state.or.us]
>Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:20 PM
>To: ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG
>Subject: Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations
>
>Bill and John's cases are the examples I was thinking of, and I think are
>typical of the notarizations that are seen throughout the country. There
>are,
>of course, many others that might be high volume for one state but not for
>others, such as notarized initiative petitions, drivers licenses, certified
>copies (many states don't allow those).
>
>In light of my assignment, all I can think of doing is to address Nick's
>questions of electronic interfaces for perhaps two or three cases. Is that
>right? In other words, document today's process (using John and Bill's work)
>and identify the hand-off/interfaces?
>
>My thought is to use John's mortgage document scenario, especially in view
>of
>PRIA's work, and Bill's notarized affidavit (with John's apostille), which
>are
>very typical use cases. The latter would be representative as well of a
>number
>of adoption type transactions and forms that go to a government; the former
>is
>good for recording purposes, and perhaps would apply somewhat equally to
>court
>filings.
>
>What I don't see is the strictly B2B transaction, which is most likely to be
>wholly electronic, if any are. John's mortgage transaction implies it, under
>shipped to various parties. In fact, the electronically recorded documents
>I've seen had a set up of Escrow closing (notarization) to bank to county
>recorder.
>
>I like Nick's graphic (I'm technologically challenged here), but I'm not
>sure
>how to incorporate it into this scheme.
>
>Tom
>
>Tom Wrosch
>Office of the Secretary of State
>State of Oregon
>thomas.e.wrosch@state.or.us
>(503) 986-1522
>fax: (503) 986-1616
>
>>>> banderson@nationalnotary.org 3/18/2004 2:57:00 PM >>>
>Another case:
>
>A signer needs to a durable power of attorney for health care notarized
>granting authority to a designated agent in the event he/she is unable to
>make health care decisions. He/she goes to the Notary, has the document
>notarized, and then requests the Notary to certify x number of copies of the
>POA to distribute to his/her physician, next of kin, pastor, yadi, yada. In
>this scenario, no document is publicly recorded, but is retained by the
>interested parties until the time of need.
>
>Another case:
>
>Person A wishes to sponsor person B, a non-naturalized citizen of another
>country who is residing in the U.S. Person A must complete an affidavit of
>support (go here: http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-134.pdf
>).
>
>After Person A swears the oath and has his/her signature notarized, the form
>is submitted to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. This scenario
>is one in which a federal arm of the U.S. requires a notarial act.
>
>BTW, John M. that "little book" in your scenario is actually quite large,
>and if Enjoa is used, is completely electronic! ;)
>
>Regards,
>
>Bill
>
>William A. Anderson
>Notary Affairs Manager
>National Notary Association
>818.739.4064
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nick Pope [mailto:pope@secstan.com]
>Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:35 AM
>To: ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG
>Subject: Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations
>
>John,
>
>Having identified these scenarios it is possible to identify the points
>where interfaces to the electronic domain may occur? At what point would
>the documents become electronic. What forms of authentication would
>involve electronic interactions?
>
>Nick
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ABA-OASIS [mailto:ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG]On Behalf Of jmessing
>> Sent: 17 March 2004 14:28
>> To: ST-ETRUST@MAIL.ABANET.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Analysis of Use cases for e-notarisations
>>
>>
>> Let me make a first stab at a couple of use cases. Anyone else
>> please feel free to jump in to add, correct, or comment.
>>
>> 1. Standard notarization for mortgage origination. Signer
>> presents him/herself at a title company office to close a
>> residential real estate transaction and is presented with a stack
>> of papers several inches thick. Some need to be notarized, others
>> just signed. The notarized documents generally relate to
>> documents that will be recorded in a land office where they will
>> be publicly accessible. These may include the deed to the
>> property, a mortgage to secure the loan on the property, and/or a
>> deed of trust in favor of the lender, which will secure the new
>> loan of the buyer. A notary witnesses the signing, has the signer
>> sign a little book containing all such witnessed transactions in
>> consecutive order, and affixes his/her own signature and seal to
>> the notarized documents. The documents are shipped off to their
>> various destinations, with the notarized ones winding up in the
>> public registry. When recording is completed, the loan is funded,
>> the transaction closes, and life goes on.
>>
>> 2. Apostille. Let's say the buyer in the previous example dies
>> and leaves the house to a foreign relative, a UK citizen, who
>> wishes to sell his/her interest in it to another UK resident. The
>> prospective purchaser of the property wants to be sure that the
>> prior sale to the decedent was valid and in the course of doing
>> his/her due diligence, seeks assurance that the notary involved
>> in the previous sale transaction was a valid notary. By means of
>> a procedure with the office of the Secretary of State of the
>> jurisdiction where the house is located, a certification can be
>> obtained that the notary was in fact a notary, that the signature
>> of the notary is valid, and the seal is genuine. This is done by
>> a person in the Secretary of State's office. A check is made of
>> the signature and seal on file as against the ones appearing on
>> the documents containing the signature and seal to be certified
>> as valid. A check is also made of the effective date of the
>> notary's commission. If all check!
>> s out properly, the certification is sent to England, the
>> interest is transferred, and life again goes on.
>>
>> In the second example, there was no in person contact with the
>> notary initiated by the Secretary of State.
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> From: Nick Pope < pope@secstan.com >
>> Reply-To: Nick Pope < pope@secstan.com >
>> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:41:53 -0000
>>
>> >John and all in the enotary group.
>> >
>> >Following on from our meeting are tried to think further on what
>> is required
>> >for analysing the requirements for e-notarisation and found
>> myself heading
>> >off to the newly found planet Sedna.
>> >
>> >Anyway here goes: What I believe is needed is something that
>> considered the
>> >entities involved in use case of notarisation, their role in the
>> different
>> >forms of authentication and how this would interface to the electronic
>> >domain.
>> >
>> >For example, is the document presented by the subject in electronic form?
>> >Is identity authentication done in non-electronic domain? Does
>> information
>> >concerning the identity authentication need to be represented in the
>> >electronic domain? ...........
>> >
>> >I attach a picture of the entities and authentications involved. For an
>> >example use case can the work flow be identified?
>> >
>> >Hope this helps.
>> >
>> >Nick
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>