Re: [oic] Table header

["Andreas J. Guelzow" <andreas.guelzow@concordia.ab.ca>]

On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 15:51 -0700, Svante Schubert wrote:
> Hi Andreas,
> 
> you have solved my understanding problems. Still some notes/questions
> below..
> 
> Am 08.11.2011 22:31, schrieb Andreas J. Guelzow:
> > On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 13:55 -0700, Svante Schubert wrote:
> >> table:table-columns seems to be a redundant element as none repetition
> >> should be the default.
> > Yes. I am pretty sure there are other redundant elements and attributes
> > in ODF. I do not see a problem with that. 
> Redundancy means unnecessary complexity. Boilerplate.
> What exactly would be the problem to deprecate redundant
> attributes/elements?

I don't know why some (any?) of them were introduced. I thi nkhaving the
table:table-rows elements to match the table:table-header-rows elements
provides consistency (and I could imagine them to become useful if we
ever want to add attributes to these elements.) But I really have no
strong opinion about marking them as deprecated. 

> >> Why is the header not mandatory first in the table?
> > Imagine you start a table with several "header" rows but on following
> > pages you only want to repeat say the last two of those "header" rows
> > since they would suffice for recognition of the columns.
> This I do not fully understand. All header rows will repeat. All header
> rows are adjacent. Only there place within the rows is arbitrary (start,
> end..anywhere).

I guess I shouldn't have tried to distinguish between "header" rows and
header rows (note the apostrophies). 

> Could you rephrase your example, please.
Would you still like a concrete example. Your later comment of "using
headlines and comments in the beginning rows / columns" seems to make
this unnecessary. I had meant to include in "header" all that commentary
at the beginning of the document while the header is just the labels we
want to repeat. 

> >
> >>         Is anyone aware of an table application (not necessary an ODF
> >>         application) that is able to have header in arbitrary places?
> >>         
> > Excel used to be able to do that (it has been 2 decades since I have
> > used it but I suspect it is still possible.) Gnumeric can have a single
> > set of header rows in arbitrary places.
> You are right, I simply forgot that people are using headlines and
> comments in the beginning rows / columns.
> Excel does indeed support the similar feature of continuous headers (see
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/videos/video-add-a-header-for-columns-and-rows-in-an-excel-worksheet-VA102559185.aspx?CTT=1).
> Installed Gnumeric and observed similar behavior.

That Gnumeric has similar behaviour is not surprising: I coded that
behaviour based on my understanding of ODF and memory of Excel, where
the former was surely influenced by the latter. 
> >>         
> >>         And if headers can be on arbitrary positions, what would be
> >>         the position of the header on the next page?
> > On the pages following the natural occurrence of the header rows they
> > appear at the top of the page.
> Indeed.
> >
> >>         The first, similar position as on the first page or last
> >>         position?
> > For example, say header rows are rows 50 & 51.
> >
> > page 1 shows rows 1 to 30, the header rows do not appear on this page
> > yet.
> >
> > page 2 shows rows 31 to 60, the header rows appear in their natural
> > position, ie. between rows 49 and 52.
> >
> > page 3 shows rows 50,51,61 to 88, with the header rows appearing at the
> > top of the page
> >
> > Second example, say header rows are rows 60 & 61:
> >
> > page 1 shows rows 1 to 30, the header rows do not appear on this page
> > yet.
> >
> > page 2 shows rows 31 to 60, the header row 60 appears in its natural
> > position, ie. after row 59.
> >
> > page 3 shows rows 60,61 to 88, with the header row 60 appearing at the
> > top of the page and header row 61 in its natural position, ie before row
> > 62 (and after the repeated header row 60).
> >
> > page 4 shows rows 60,61,89 to 116, with the header rows appearing at the
> > top of the page.
> >
> > Within a spreadsheet program this for example allows the statistical
> > analysis to precede the data on the same sheet and in a print out the
> > data immediately to follow the end of the of the analysis.
> I tested and could observe the same behavior.
> Thanks for your quick feed-back, Andreas!

you are welcome...

> 
> Now that I am certain about the right behavior, I think it is possible
> to make the schema more strict.

That would surely be a good idea. 

Andreas

-- 
Andreas J. Guelzow, PhD, FTICA
Concordia University College of Alberta

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