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Subject: Re: [sca-assembly] [Issue 80] Proposed directional resolution
Jeff, I understand the value of events and pub/sub and I agree that SCA needs to move forward with adding these capabilities. My experience of dealing with customers is that they are OK if not everything arrives in a single release, as long as there is a clear roadmap for how improved capability will be added later. I thought the email from Jacques Durand on this subject (see http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/200906/msg00016.html) was very interesting. The approach he suggests in comment [12b] of documenting "best practice" for handing events with the current Assembly concepts might provide a way to achieve credibility for SCA 1.1 in the integration space while allowing the standarization of the full event and pub/sub model to proceed in parallel on a later schedule. Simon Jeff Mischkinsky wrote: > hi Simon, > > The problem we have with delaying putting in the event concept is that > we see it as a fundamental part of the functionality that SCA is > supposed to deliver. Essentially without eventing and pub/sub support as > a first class citizen, SCA will not be seen as a credible solution in > the SOA-space in general; and the integration-space in particular -- its > two major targets. I know y'all laugh if i pull out the "our customers > tell us" chestnut, though in fact that IS true, especially for our > larger customers. In addition, it is critical to our internal customers > (the apps and integration teams), and analysts have made the same point > to us, repeatedly. > > Without a decoupled processing model that complements the existing SCA > service-reference model, we believe that SCA will not gain as much > traction and be a serious contender in the SOA-space, as it deserves. > Both our internal and external customers use both models to integrate > their applications and solutions. Pub-sub and event processing are > well-established and well-entrenched way of modeling, thinking and > programming in the integration-space and we strongly believe that SCA > needs to address them now. > > We just don't understand how in this day and age one can go out with a > message that SCA is the best implementation model for SOA without it > addressing one of the main design points of SOA - loose coupling, event > processing. > > When making the proposal to issue-80, we are very much aware of, and do > appreciate, the implications on the schedule. But we feel that it is in > the best interest of the SCA standard and its adoption to delay the > release of SCA 1.1, if necessary, to include support for pub-sub and > event processing. Without this inclusion, there is a real risk of SCA > not being taken seriously and proprietary eventing processing, pub-sub > extensions impeding portability and fragmenting the standard. > > We are also not clear on exactly how long a delay this will actually > create, since we don't know at this point when we will be in a position > to the meet the exit criteria, i.e. the test suites with 2 implementations. > cheers, > jeff > On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Simon Nash wrote: > >> Anish, >> I am very concerned about the work involved in fully integrating >> the event concepts into SCA Assembly and presumably all the other >> SCA specs. >> >> At this stage in the SCA 1.1 lifecycle I believe our priority should >> be to close down the few remaining issues, complete the public reviews, >> and move to formal ratification of the SCA 1.1 standard based on the >> current specifications. >> >> Absorbing this major new piece of functionality into the SCA specs >> will have large implications and push out the completion of SCA 1.1 >> by some considerable time. IMO it would be better to look at whether >> the Events support could be standardized in some other form such as >> a separate delta or supplement to the SCA 1.1 base specs. This would >> allow the current specifications to achieve standardization in a >> timely manner, followed by an SCA Events 1.1 standard when this is >> complete and ready to go forward. >> >> Simon >> >> Anish Karmarkar wrote: >>> I would like to propose that we use the contribution at [2], as a basis >>> for a directional resolution for issue 80 [1]. Specifically, we >>> introduce the concepts of events, event types, producers, consumers, >>> channels; and the changes these concepts make to the existing >>> composite/component/componentType/constrainingType constructs. >>> If this directional resolution is accepted, I suggest that an inlined >>> document (with change marks) be produced that provides a merge between >>> [2] and the existing latest version of SCA Assembly. This would then >>> serve as a basis for the resolution of issue 80. >>> Comments? >>> -Anish >>> -- >>> [1] http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-80 >>> [2] >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/32379/SCA_Assembly_Extensions_for_Event_Processing_and_PubSub_V1_0.pdf --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > -- > Jeff Mischkinsky jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com > Director, Oracle Fusion Middleware +1(650)506-1975 > and Web Services Standards 500 Oracle Parkway, > M/S 2OP9 > Oracle Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > > > > > > > > > >
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