Minutes
<Bob>
Eric, would you mind scribing until my shoulder is taken care of?
<EricW>
OK Bob I'm dialling in now
Opening
Roll Call - 13/20 = 65% Quorate but not 2/3
Agenda - approved as posted
MikeE:
Note there are 1.1 new issues related to Exit Criteria
Roll now 14/20 = 70% - OK now for new issues (V1.1)
Approval of Minutes
No discussion, no objections
Resolution: Minutes of 2011-03-08 approved w/o
Action Items
Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained
in wsra
Administrivia
Exit Criteria
The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.
Discussion:
Lots of debate on the Assembly mailing list (too many messages to list!)
Intention is to complete the activities that were under debate and vote at the end of last week's meeting
Floor opened for discussion
MartinC:
New issues really about matching tests to normative statements
...related to Exit Criteria, but not identical
...We should examine statements that are not coverd by tests (are they needed/useful?)
MikeE:
Requiring 2+ coverage of ALL optional parts then don't think we could ever exit
<anish>
Mike's original proposal:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' "
<anish>
my changes sent in email:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as
described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA
Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted
by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
AnishK:
Intention of my proposal was to loosen criteria such that UNION(all runtimes) >= 2 compliant with all normative portions
<anish>
normative == mandatory+optional
MikeE:
Can comply with optional part by not implementing
MartinC:
No - would need to implement feature
MikeE:
This is about compliance - can comply with spec by not implementing optional parts
AnishK:
Exit Criteria is not compliance - would need implementation
MikeE:
I cannot see every optional part being covered (perhaps in Assembly, but NOT for other parts of SCA)
MikeE:
New issues would make some optional parts mandatory and make the rest non-normative
...there would be no optional parts in Assembly, but this approach would not work for others (e.g. SCA Bindings - WS MakeConnection)
AnishK:
Either have to have 2+ implementations or remove from spec
EricW:
I think removeing some parts would cause a stir when the spec goes to Public Review
...Removing/changing normative parts of spec may cause objections with external (to OASIS) implementors
BobF:
What stage does the Exit Criteria apply to? CO? OS?
<jeff.mischkinsky>
OASIS Final Deliverable
<jeff.mischkinsky>
that would be CS
BobF:
Would suggest Exit Criteria applies to OASIS standard
<jeff.mischkinsky>
There is no requirement to go to OS and a CS is a Final Deliverable -- there can be no changes between a CS and a OS document
<jeff.mischkinsky>
OS is simply an extra vote on an already final deliverable to change the cover page to OS from CS
EricW:
Guys my phone connection has died - redialling
<jeff.mischkinsky>
Rather than arguing about whehter there would be great consternation in the "community" about changes, the way to find out
is to ask, not speculate
<Bob>
Anish, that is why we need to consider each potential item on a case by case besis
Anish:
I think we are OK with respect to the WS-MakeConnection section in the WS Binding spec
MartinC:
Outside parties would just need to adjust to final material
...All specs are subject to change before final material - if they want some feature they should be part of the TC
<Bob>
Nothing prevents the cttee from voting more than one CS
MikeK:
Proposes restoring MikeE's original exit criteria:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' "
Motion: Accept as exit criteria the proposal 1 made by Mike Edwards as posted above m=MikeK s=BryanA
EricJ:
Would like to ask why MikeK doesn't like Anish's amended proposal
MikeK:
Think we may end up never being able to exit OR would have to make too many changes to specs
<Bob>
for each normative statement there exists at least two complient implementations?
<MartinC>
then i dont know why the text says "there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions
of the" vs there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with"
AnishK:
Difference is between ALL/EACH normative statements
...Also how conformance/compliance can be proven
Motion: Amend the criteria to read "all mandatory normative portions" in the 1st bullet m=MartinC s=MikeK
EricJ:
Speaks against the amendment - thinks this is against spirit of the TC charter
AnishK:
Against amendment for same reason
MartinC:
Also speaks against his own amendment - proposed to provoke discussion/clarification
No one speaks in favor of amendment
EricJ:
Moves to amend the exit criteria to read:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as
described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA
Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted
by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
Motion: Amemnd proposal to text as posted above m=EricJ s=AnishK
SimonH:
Speaks against the motion
BobF:
Tables the motion for first order of business for next week
Unanimous consent to tabling the motion
AOB
Straggler roll - DannyV EricJ PeterN
Meeting Adjourned 9:02AM PDT
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