Minutes
<Mike Edwards>
Thank you for scribing Eric
EricW:
NP Mike - Bob will perhaps join but his shoulder needs fixing
<Mike Edwards>
Sorry to hear that
<Bob>
I am here, Thanks Eric
Opening
Roll call - 15/21 = 71% - Quorate (>2/3)
Agenda - accepted as posted
EricJ noted ASSEMBLY-258 applies to 1.1 as well as 1.2
Approval of Minutes
Resolution: Minutes of 2011-03-15 approved w/o
Action items
Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained
in wsra
Administrivia
Europe is on DST from next w/e so call times back to "normal"
Chairs noted there are a number of holidays in the near future
Resolution: Meeting of 2011-04-26 cancelled w/o
Exit Criteria
Tabled motion from last meeting resumed:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as
described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA
Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted
by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
Point of order - noted that previous motion expires as this is a new meeting
Motion: Adopt text posted above as Exit Criteria for SCA Assembly 1.1 m=EricJ s=AnishK
AnishK:
Notes that he would interpret this as requiring TWO+ (>=2) implementations of EVERY normative statement (mandatory & optional)
<Mike Kaiser>
Add the following to the end of the motion - not intended as part of the proposed Exit Criteria, but
as an explanation of the effects on specifications being subject to the proposed Exit Criteria:
"The result of these exit criteria is that it is very hard to sustain optional normative features in any of
the OASIS SCA specifications and that all the OASIS SCA specifications must be examined with
the presumption that any optional normative statement will be modified either to make the statement
mandatory or to reduce the statement from being normative to being informative"
Without a clear understanding along these lines, I think that the proposed Exit Criteria will almost
ensure that any specification with optional items will never pass the Exit Criteria. The actual changes
to each specification will of course be subject to usual TC issue process.
Motion: Amend motion by adding text posted above to end of Exit Criteria m=MikeK
MikeK:
Thinks there should be a note concerning optional normative statements
...don't think there will EVER be two or more implementations of all optionall normative statements
JeffM:
This is opinion about effect of original motion
...this is not an amendment to the motion
No second - motion to amend fails
Motion: Amend the text of the original motion to change the start of the second bullet to read "at least" instead of "the" m=EricJ
s=AnishK
No discussion - no objections
Resolution: Amend the text of the original motion to change the start of the second bullet to read "at least" instead of "the" w/o
Amended text for main motion:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:
o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as
described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification
o At lest two independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for
the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted
by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
MikeE:
Thinks MikeK's opinion is very valid - there will never be enough coverage of optional normative statements to Exit
...not so much of a problem for Assembly, but a real problem for other SCA specs
...removing/making mandatory may help, but can't be done for all optional statments in other specs
<Bob>
I guess that if there is never more than one of an optional feature then certainly there is no interoperability risk ;-)
JimM:
Does anyone implement ALL optional statements?
JeffM:
This is sort of indended side effect - if no one implements a statement it shouldn't be in the spec
<Sanjay>
I think we should get the specs out of the door now even if we (the TC) are not perfectly happy with it. We are just taking
too long and with further delays we might be risking losing the interest of the market. Just my opinion.
EricJ:
To me the amended text is just a (clear) reading of the charter
MartinC:
We should review when we have implementations for consideration
...if they don't implement some things then we should review those items not implemented
MikeE:
This is easy for Assembly but MUCH more difficult for other SCA spes
...other TC's will want to follow this TC's lead but I don't believe this would work for them
BobF:
Point of order - seems that the current motion is OK
...any other interprtation would be against the charter and so out of order
JeffM:
Calls the question
No objections to calling the question
MikeE:
Objects to main motion
Vote: For 7, Against 10 - motion for proposed Exit Criteria fails
MikeE (as Chair) exhortrs TC members to try and resolve the impass on the mailing list
New Issues (1.1)
MartinC:
Many optional normative statements are untestable
...essentially they are just "pious advice" and shouldn't really be normative
<Mike Edwards>
Statments affected by this issue are:
The statements affected are: ASM12008, ASM12013, ASM12014, ASM12015, ASM12016, ASM12018, ASM12020, ASM14001, ASM14002
<Mike Edwards>
Why is ASM60021 not included:
[ASM60021]
For the case of an un-wired reference with multiplicity 1..1 or 1..n the deployment process provided by an SCA runtime SHOULD
issue a warning.
MartinC:
ASM60021 should be included in the list of affected statements
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-260 with the inclusion of ASM60021 to the list of affected conformance items m=EricJ s=MartinC
no discussion - no objections
Resolution: Open ASSEMBLY-260 with the inclusion of ASM60021 to the list of affected conformance items w/o
<MartinC >
ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004
EricJ:
ASM12030 - what is the target of this statement? (w.r.t. upgrading)
...also questions regarding ASM14004
Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-261 m=Anishk s=MartinC
Resolution: Assembly-261 opened w/o
AOB
Straggler roll - EricJ JeffM JimM
Schreiber diagnostics output
[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]
final validation: Date not specified, the date '2011-03-22' was assumed
final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed
final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed
statistics: Schreiber found 91 input lines
edits: Schreiber found the following text-edit commands:
edits: Line 2: s/1. Intro/agenda: 1. Intro/
edits: Line 98: s/cll/call/
edits: Line 99: s/Objects to calling question/Objects to main motion/
edit-substitute: command on line 2 succeeded, changed line 1 from '1. Intro' to 'agenda: 1. Intro'
edit-delete: Line 2 was deleted
command-scribe: Line 3: Scribe 'Eric Wells' is recognized by use of the nick 'EricW'
command-scribe: Line 3: EricW's nick 'EricW' has been selected
citation-detection-scribed: Line 28: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Tabled motion from last meeting resumed'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 29: Check for possible unrecognized nick '"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly
V1.1 specification are that'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 50: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Amended text for main motion'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 51: Check for possible unrecognized nick '"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly
V1.1 specification are that'
edit-substitute: command on line 99 succeeded, changed line 96 from 'Objects to calling question' to 'Objects to main motion'
citation-detection-scribed: Line 97: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Vote'
edits-command-processing: In command on line 98 search text 'cll' was not found.
edit-delete: Line 99 was deleted
citation-detection-scribed: Line 130: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'COB 9'
system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2
[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]