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Subject: Re: [sca-bindings] Re: CD02 packages for SCA Bindings specs readyfor publication
Mary, The TC is not asking for any existing URIs to change. We are asking for a new URI to be added. As such, our request is entirely consistent with http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI. Also, we are not asking for dozens or hundreds of symlinks or redirects, just one. I am disappointed with your response to this very reasonable request from the TC and I will be initiating a formal appeal. Simon Mary McRae wrote: > This is standard web practice. http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI > While theoretically I could maintain dozens, if not hundreds of > symlinks or redirects, the reality is I don't. We stand by the principle > that cool URIs don't change. I'll work with Robin to provide more > details in the Naming Guidelines. > > I'm sorry but I'm considering this topic closed. As always the TC has > the right to appeal any decisions/actions/inactions to the Board of > Directors. > > Mary > > > > > On Jul 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Eric Johnson wrote: > >> Hi Mary, >> >> Mary McRae wrote: >>> Neither does it say that you can change them. While I understand why >>> certain warnings are explicitly stated (one of my favorites, from an >>> old tank technical documentation project: "Do not stand in front of >>> gun turret while in motion. Severe injury or death may result") this >>> is a case of common sense. In order for any given URI to always >>> identify the most recent version of a spec, it must be consistently >>> applied. >> Actually, my take is that "common sense" does not fit here. As a >> member of the TC, I had utterly no clue that a rather small decision >> in the very early days of the TC - about what to name the files, was >> something that we'd be stuck with forever. I don't remember you >> standing up and reminding us that this was the case. And honestly, as >> someone new to the TC process, I /thought/ I had much bigger problems >> to worry about - like making sure I was clear on Robert's Rules of >> Order, and myriad other implications of voting on a committee draft. >> >> And common sense doesn't apply since this apparent rule flies in the >> face of all the web technologies I've ever worked with. >> >> We are not asking to remove or change a URL, we are asking to add >> one. So yes, it really does seem like a reasonable request to me. As >> someone who has spent a long time working on specs, I generally >> interpret that if the rules don't explicitly preclude something, it >> stands a very good chance that that was intentional. So if I apply >> the "common sense" that I apply to virtually all other rules I >> encounter in my business life, it would seem that *adding* an >> additional "latest" URL would be well within the realm of possibility. >> >> Consider me very much confused by this whole issue. >> >> -Eric. >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Simon Nash wrote: >>> >>>> Mary, >>>> Are these rules documented in the OASIS Naming Guidelines? I have been >>>> reading through the guidelines and I can't find these rules anywhere. >>>> >>>> If these rules are not documented, how could the TC have known about >>>> them >>>> before choosing URIs for the first published versions? >>>> >>>> I found the following description of the latest URI in ref. [1]: >>>> >>>> A bookmarkable, version-agnostic, generic URI serving as a URI alias >>>> which is always associated with the latest/current specification >>>> instance, >>>> thus having a changing referent; it serves to identify and directly >>>> locate each successive published instance of a developing >>>> specification, >>>> through time [Label: Latest Version] >>>> >>>> This seems only to require that the "latest URI" on the cover of any >>>> version >>>> of the spec will always locate the most recent version of the spec. >>>> >>>> I also saw the following, also in ref. [1]: >>>> >>>> Mapping from version-specific (This Version) to version-agnostic >>>> (Latest Version) is specified on a case-by-case basis, per the wishes >>>> of the TC. As of 2006-09-22, OASIS IT staff had installed a prototype >>>> implementation to support versatile server configuration settings that >>>> establish mappings between arbitrary URIs and system resources >>>> represented >>>> by files and directories/paths. Based upon the results of testing of >>>> this >>>> implementation or its successor, OASIS Staff will make recommendations >>>> to TCs about a set of best-practice alternatives for constructing >>>> "Latest >>>> Version" URIs, and methods for ensuring that the server >>>> configuration is >>>> always updated to reflect the TC's declared mappings. In the >>>> interim, TCs >>>> should consult with the TC Administration to negotiate agreement about >>>> creating URI aliases and other mappings. >>>> >>>> I presume the versatile settings for mappings described here refer to >>>> symlinks. Given that OASIS has this technical capability which can >>>> serve >>>> the same document under multiple URLs, what is the reason for refusing >>>> to use it to implement the TC's request? >>>> >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#specURIs >>>> >>>> >>>> Mary McRae wrote: >>>>> My apologies for not being more precise. The URIs as established on >>>>> the first publication to docs.oasis-open.org are those that must >>>>> remain in the actual text on the document cover, in the hypertext >>>>> link behind that text, and the established symlink. Neither >>>>> multiple symlinks nor redirects will be maintained. >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Mary >>>>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Simon Nash wrote: >>>>>> Mary, >>>>>> I understand that OASIS requires the latest URLs that have been >>>>>> established to remain for the life of the document. Both of the >>>>>> options in my email satisfy this requirement. >>>>>> >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> >>>>>> Mary McRae wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>>>> Neither of the approaches are possible. The latest URLs that have >>>>>>> been established must remain for the life of the document. >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Mary >>>>>>> Mary P McRae >>>>>>> Director, Standards Development >>>>>>> Technical Committee Administrator >>>>>>> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society >>>>>>> email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>>> web: www.oasis-open.org >>>>>>> twitter: fiberartisan #oasisopen >>>>>>> phone: 1.603.232.9090 >>>>>>> Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're open. >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Simon Nash wrote: >>>>>>>> Mary, >>>>>>>> The Bindings TC discussed the naming issue and has decided to >>>>>>>> revert >>>>>>>> to the previous names in the short term so that the process of >>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>> to public review can be expedited and is not blocked on the naming >>>>>>>> issue. The Bindings TC also decided to continue to pursue the >>>>>>>> adoption >>>>>>>> of its previously agreed new naming convention with OASIS TC Admin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The TC would like to begin publishing new versions of its documents >>>>>>>> using the new naming convention and new form of URLs as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. For documents that have already been published using the >>>>>>>> existing naming convention, the TC would like to leave these in >>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>> at their current URLs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For each of the affected documents, the TC would like to create >>>>>>>> new "latest" URLs that match the new naming conventions. For the >>>>>>>> current "latest" URLs, there are two options: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) For each of the affected documents, use an HTTP redirect from >>>>>>>> the current "latest" URL to the new "latest" URL. These redirects >>>>>>>> can be set up as a one-time operation, so that as the documents >>>>>>>> referenced by the new-form "latest" URLs change in the future, >>>>>>>> these documents will automatically also become available at the >>>>>>>> current old-form "latest" URLs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) Every time a new document is published, both the new-form >>>>>>>> "latest" URL and the old-form "latest" URL would be re-linked to >>>>>>>> point to the new document. This does not require any HTTP >>>>>>>> redirects, but it does require additional re-linking of "latest" >>>>>>>> URLs each time new versions of the documents are published. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The TC would be willing to accept either of these approaches. >>>>>>>> Which >>>>>>>> of them would be most convenient for OASIS TC Admin and IT >>>>>>>> Services? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mary McRae wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Simon, >>>>>>>>> The URLs for latest are not intended to be changed once >>>>>>>>> established. I maintain a single set of symlinks for each >>>>>>>>> specification. >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Mary >>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Simon Holdsworth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mary, what is the issue with having both forms of "latest" URL >>>>>>>>>> working? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With CD02, we have the following files that are published, for >>>>>>>>>> example for binding.jms: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Existing URLs for published CD01 version: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.doc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Within those documents, the latest version URLs: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.doc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Requested URLs for published CD02 version: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.doc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Requested latest URLs: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.doc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So in order to support the new spelling of the latest URLs, I >>>>>>>>>> agree that we should not change the existing documents. That >>>>>>>>>> means that we need to: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1) make the existing latest URLs point at the CD02 versions of >>>>>>>>>> the documents. I assume you would have to do that anyway. >>>>>>>>>> 2) create new latest URLs that point at the CD02 versions of >>>>>>>>>> the documents. This does entail some duplication of work if >>>>>>>>>> it not possible to redirect the URLs in 1) to these as a >>>>>>>>>> one-off process. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, Simon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simon Holdsworth >>>>>>>>>> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA >>>>>>>>>> Bindings TC Chair >>>>>>>>>> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK >>>>>>>>>> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898 >>>>>>>>>> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Mary McRae <mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>>* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 28/05/2009 15:16 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> Anish Karmarkar <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>> >>>>>>>>>> cc >>>>>>>>>> Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM@IBMGB, >>>>>>>>>> sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject >>>>>>>>>> Re: [sca-bindings] Re: CD02 packages for SCA Bindings specs >>>>>>>>>> ready for publication >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Anish, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It has nothing to do with Kavi; these files are in a separate >>>>>>>>>> web space. It's an IT decision / access / management issue. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2009, at 1:01 AM, Anish Karmarkar wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > Mary McRae wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >> Hi Simon, >>>>>>>>>> >> I'm sorry - it looks like that never made it into my >>>>>>>>>> queue. My >> apologies! >>>>>>>>>> >> We can't change the name of the latest version once >>>>>>>>>> established - >> that breaks the reasoning behind them. We >>>>>>>>>> never edit files once >> they've been uploaded, and we have >>>>>>>>>> no idea how many people may have >> downloaded the file and >>>>>>>>>> will expect the link to work going forward. >> We also don't >>>>>>>>>> support redirects. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > Why not? >>>>>>>>>> > Is that a limitation of KAVI or is it a OASIS policy. >>>>>>>>>> > Not supporting redirects on the Web seems very strange to me. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > -Anish >>>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >> It's okay that the current filename and the latest >>>>>>>>>> version >> filename are slightly different from my >>>>>>>>>> perspective; in all >> likelihood people are clicking on the >>>>>>>>>> link and not paying too much >> attention to the filename. >>>>>>>>>> The new filename doesn't seem to be that >> different from >>>>>>>>>> the old one that should someone have downloaded the >> file, >>>>>>>>>> they would be misled by the naming. >>>>>>>>>> >> Let me know if you want me to edit the files or if you >>>>>>>>>> will >> provide updated copies for uploading. >>>>>>>>>> >> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >> Mary >>>>>>>>>> >> Mary P McRae >>>>>>>>>> >> Director, Standards Development >>>>>>>>>> >> Technical Committee Administrator >>>>>>>>>> >> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society >>>>>>>>>> >> email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org> >> web: www.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.oasis-open.org> <http://www.oasis-open.org> >>>>>>>>>> >> twitter: fiberartisan #oasisopen >>>>>>>>>> >> phone: 1.603.232.9090 >>>>>>>>>> >> Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're >>>>>>>>>> open. >>>>>>>>>> >> On May 22, 2009, at 5:17 AM, Simon Holdsworth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Mary, >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> I sent this note some time ago, but did not get a >>>>>>>>>> response, and I >>> can't see any of the updated versions >>>>>>>>>> available on the OASIS site. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> I'd appreciate it if you could let me know when these >>>>>>>>>> updated >>> versions of the specifications will be published. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Thanks, Simon >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Simon Holdsworth >>>>>>>>>> >>> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA >>>>>>>>>> Bindings >>> TC Chair >>>>>>>>>> >>> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK >>>>>>>>>> >>> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898 >>>>>>>>>> >>> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com >>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>>> >>> ----- Forwarded by Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM on 22/05/2009 >>>>>>>>>> 10:16 ----- >>>>>>>>>> >>> *Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM* >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> 02/03/2009 11:27 >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> To >>>>>>>>>> >>> <mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> cc >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> Subject >>>>>>>>>> >>> CD02 packages for SCA Bindings specs >>>>>>>>>> ready for publication >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Mary, >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> I have prepared the following packages for publication >>>>>>>>>> containing >>> the CD02 versions of the SCA bindings specs, >>>>>>>>>> and would appreciate >>> it if you could publish them on the >>>>>>>>>> OASIS website: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31480/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02.zip >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31479/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.zip >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31478/sca-binding-jca-1.1-spec-cd02.zip >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> The only specific note I have is that we changed the >>>>>>>>>> naming of >>> these documents, so that the latest link on the >>>>>>>>>> old cd01 pages, >>> which currently point to (for example): >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-wsbinding-1.1-spec.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> now need to point to: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-wsbinding-1.1-spec.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> I guess that can be done by redirecting the 3 URLs or >>>>>>>>>> modifying >>> the 3 cd01 HTML pages for WS, JMS and JCA >>>>>>>>>> bindings. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> The cd02 packages all point to this latest URL. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Thanks, Simopn >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Simon Holdsworth >>>>>>>>>> >>> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA >>>>>>>>>> Bindings >>> TC Chair >>>>>>>>>> >>> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK >>>>>>>>>> >>> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898 >>>>>>>>>> >>> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com >>>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> / >>>>>>>>>> >>> / >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> /Unless stated otherwise above: >>>>>>>>>> >>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and >>>>>>>>>> Wales with >>> number 741598. >>>>>>>>>> >>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, >>>>>>>>>> Hampshire >>> PO6 3AU/ >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> / >>>>>>>>>> >>> / >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> /Unless stated otherwise above: >>>>>>>>>> >>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and >>>>>>>>>> Wales with >>> number 741598. >>>>>>>>>> >>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, >>>>>>>>>> Hampshire >>> PO6 3AU/ >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> / >>>>>>>>>> / >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> /Unless stated otherwise above: >>>>>>>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales >>>>>>>>>> with number 741598. >>>>>>>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, >>>>>>>>>> Hampshire PO6 3AU/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. 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