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Subject: Raw log of chat for 2008-01-17 telcon


anish: Agenda: 1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php

2. Appointment of scribe
Rotating list attached below

3. Agenda bashing

4. Approval of Jan 10, 2008 meeting minutes
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200801/msg00011.html

5. Action items review
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php

#0016 Open an issue in SCA Assembly TC regarding agreement/conflict of 
default values in the CT file and the runtime  Michael Rowley

#0017 Open an issue in SCA Assembly TC regarding whether default values 
in the runtime are necessarily represented in the CT file  Mike Edwards

#0018 Incorporate resolution of issue 11 into the spec  Michael Rowley

#0019 Start an email discussion on issue 2, especially the distinction 
between 'how' a CT side file is located v. 'where' it is located 
Michael Rowley

6. OpenCSA Liaison Subcommittees recommendation for defining conformance 
targets and use of RFC 2199 keywords
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200801/msg00015.html

7. Approval of latest Working Drafts
Latest Working Draft: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26339/sca-bpel-1.1-spec-WD-04.doc

8. New Issues

9. Issue Discussion

a) Issue 2 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-2
TITLE: Does the spec allow a componentType side file
SUBMITTED BY: Anish Karmarkar
Email thread:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00040.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00042.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00043.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00044.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00048.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00049.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00055.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200711/msg00003.html

b) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
TITLE: Define Conformance Targets
SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman

c) Issue 1 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-1
TITLE: support for BPEL4WS 1.1
SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman

d) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14
Title: Allow sca-aware processes to specify everything that can be 
specified in a CT side file
Submitted by: Anish Karmarkar

e) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
TITLE: Ambigous Service Resolution
SUBMITTED BY: Dieter Koenig

10. Next weeks call (may conflict with SCA Policy F2F)

11. AOB

anish: Agenda: 1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php

2. Appointment of scribe
Rotating list attached below

3. Agenda bashing

4. Approval of Jan 10, 2008 meeting minutes
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200801/msg00011.html

5. Action items review
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php

#0016 Open an issue in SCA Assembly TC regarding agreement/conflict of 
default values in the CT file and the runtime  Michael Rowley

#0017 Open an issue in SCA Assembly TC regarding whether default values 
in the runtime are necessarily represented in the CT file  Mike Edwards

#0018 Incorporate resolution of issue 11 into the spec  Michael Rowley

#0019 Start an email discussion on issue 2, especially the distinction 
between 'how' a CT side file is located v. 'where' it is located 
Michael Rowley

6. OpenCSA Liaison Subcommittees recommendation for defining conformance 
targets and use of RFC 2199 keywords
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200801/msg00015.html

7. Approval of latest Working Drafts
Latest Working Draft: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26339/sca-bpel-1.1-spec-WD-04.doc

8. New Issues

9. Issue Discussion

a) Issue 2 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-2
TITLE: Does the spec allow a componentType side file
SUBMITTED BY: Anish Karmarkar
Email thread:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00040.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00042.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00043.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00044.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00048.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00049.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200710/msg00055.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200711/msg00003.html

b) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
TITLE: Define Conformance Targets
SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman

c) Issue 1 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-1
TITLE: support for BPEL4WS 1.1
SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman

d) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14
Title: Allow sca-aware processes to specify everything that can be 
specified in a CT side file
Submitted by: Anish Karmarkar

e) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
TITLE: Ambigous Service Resolution
SUBMITTED BY: Dieter Koenig

10. Next weeks call (may conflict with SCA Policy F2F)

11. AOB

anish: Chair: Sanjay Patil

anish: Meeting: OASIS SCA BPEL TC telcon

anish: Date: 17-Jan-2008

anish: Scribe: Ivana Trickovic

Ivana Trickovic: agenda accepted

Ivana Trickovic: Minutes of Jan 10, 2008: approved

Ivana Trickovic: Action item #16: Done

Ivana Trickovic: Action item #17: It is issue 38 in the Assembly TC. Done

Ivana Trickovic: Action item  #18: Done

Ivana Trickovic: Action item #19: Done

Ivana Trickovic: Open CSA Liaison

Sanjay: LSC recommendation:

Sanjay: Conformance targets can be categorized into
1) document artifacts (or constructs within them) that can be checked 
statically.
2) SCA runtimes, which we may require to exhibit certain behaviors.

We recommend that each TC write its specifications to:
1. Reword the specifications using RFC 2119 keywords.
2. For each appearance of a 2119 keyword, specify the document, 
construct or runtime behavior that is being constrained.

Ivana Trickovic1: MikeE: motion to move with the recommendation

Ivana Trickovic1: Charlton: seconded

Ivana Trickovic1: motion passed

anish by approval, u mean accepting it as a CD, right?

Ivana Trickovic1: Latest Working Draft

Ivana Trickovic1:    Latest Working Draft: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/26339/sca-bpel-1.1-spec-WD-04.doc

Sanjay: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/download.php/26773/sca-bpel-draft-1.1-spec-WD-05.doc

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Motion to accept WD #5 as CD

Ivana Trickovic1: Dieter: seconded

Ivana Trickovic1: no discussion on the motion

Ivana Trickovic1: no objections

Ivana Trickovic1: motion passed

Ivana Trickovic1: Dieter: Rename the document to CD

Ivana Trickovic1: No new issues

Ivana Trickovic1: Issues Discussion

Ivana Trickovic1: Issue #2

Ivana Trickovic1: Anish: There are 4 sub-issues:

Ivana Trickovic1: 1) how/where the CT side file is found/located
2) extend the /componentType/service and componentType/reference syntax
to include partnerlinks (providing the ability to override defaults)
3) compatibility between CT side file and introspected CT. This is more
of an assembly issue, but we need to agree on how defaults are treated.
4) Allow the same info to be specified in a side file as well as
inlined. This would require new BPEL extensions for service/refs a la
multirefs and properties.

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Multiple side files is not at issus. It 
could be restricted by saying that there must be exactlly one

Ivana Trickovic1: MichealR: Regarding #2: we probably do not want to 
have PLs in component type

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Regarding #3: This is an assembly issue.

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Regarding #4: agree to address it

Sanjay: http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14

Ivana Trickovic1: Sanjay: Regarding #1: Issue #14 inlcudes this aspect

Ivana Trickovic1: correction: Sanjay: Regarding #4: Issue #14 includes 
this aspect

Ivana Trickovic1: Stick to #1

Ivana Trickovic1: Action item: Anish to open a new issue for #2

Sanjay: Michael Rowley's proposal:

Sanjay: Michael Rowley wrote:
 >
 > The assembly spec currently says: "The location of the component type
 > file depends on the type of the component implementation: it is
 > described in the respective client and implementation model
 > specification for the implementation type."
 >
 > In my opinion, the SCA BPEL spec should define _how_ to find a component
 > type side file for a BPEL process, rather than _where_ to find them.
 > This is based on the fact that we don't typically use locations to refer
 > to XML definitions.  <implementation.bpel> and
 > <implementation.componentType> both refer to their implementations by
 > QName, not by a location.
 >
 > Therefore, I think that we should say that SCA finds the ComponentType
 > for a BPEL process named "foo:bar" by finding any ComponentType document
 > that has <implementation.bpel qname="foo:bar">, wherever it might be
 > within the contribution.
 >

Michael Rowley: If <implementation.bpel> is not present, then the 
component type has to have a contribution URI that is identical to the 
contribution URI except that the extension has to be changed to 
".componentType".

Michael Rowley: s/except/of the process, except/

Alex Yiu: +1 to Michael's latest suggestion

Alex Yiu: question: where to get the latest XSD file for componentType 
definition?

Mike Edwards: this seems over complex to me

Mike Edwards: I dont see a good benefit

Michael Rowley: I agree -- <implementation.bpel> should just be required.

anish: this would simplify this, but i'm still concerned by the 
portability issue

Mike Edwards: +1 Anish

anish: s/by/about/

Mike Edwards: and "portability of skills" matters too

Dieter Koenig: requiring <implementation.bpel> sounds good to me

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Motion:

Michael Rowley: CA finds the ComponentType for a BPEL process named 
"foo:bar" by finding any ComponentType document that has 
<implementation.bpel qname="foo:bar">, wherever it might be within the 
contribution.  While the assembly specification allows 
<implementation.bpel> to be absent, for SCA BPEL, the component type 
MUST include an <implementation.bpel> element.

anish: s/CA finds/SCA finds/

Mike Edwards: This looks more complex

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Motion to accept this as resolution for issue #2

Ivana Trickovic1: Charlton: seconded

Martin C: is it really a MUST

Martin C: ?

Michael Rowley: y

Ivana Trickovic1: anish: Still concerned with the portability issue

Dieter Koenig: replace <implementation.bpel qname="foo:bar"> by 
<implementation.bpel process="foo:bar">

Ivana Trickovic1: The discussion about issue #2 to be continued.

Ivana Trickovic1: Sanjay: Any further discussion on the motion

Ivana Trickovic1: No discussions

Mike Edwards: at the moment I'd vote against

Ivana Trickovic1: MichaelR: Move to table the motion

Ivana Trickovic1: Chalton: seconded

Mike Edwards: +1 to table

Ivana Trickovic1: No objections

Ivana Trickovic1: Sanjay: Next week is Policy TC f2f. Do you want to 
cancel next week's concall?

Ivana Trickovic1: Charlton: seocnded

Ivana Trickovic1: no concall next week

Mike Edwards: bye

Alex Yiu: bye

Ivana Trickovic1: meeting adjourned

Ivana Trickovic1: byeR


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