RE: [smartgrid-discuss] more thoughts (2 parts)

[David Holmberg <david.holmberg@nist.gov>]

DavidW,

Maybe Toby's response gave some insight to the comments you gave below.
Yes, some people will want their power "grain-fed, hormone
free". Some people will want the green stuff just like some want
organic chicken. Many like me will want the low-priced power. And
utilities will market different flavours of power. Is it hokie? no more
than organic chicken. "Once it's in the grid it's just power".
That is certainly true--an electron is an electron. But the utility
contracts with a specific generator for a specific number of kWh, and
then in turn can pass the cost of that kWh on to a customer. We are
steadily marching toward carbon controls. Already no utility is siting
new coal plants, and states have renewable energy (RE) portfolios saying
that e.g., by the year 2020 we will have 20% RE, which pushes us toward
RE integration in the grid, perhaps whether we want to pay for it or not.
But some people want to encourage that and are willing to help pay for
it. 

DavidH


At 10:20 PM 12/10/2008, David RR Webber \(XML\) wrote:

Arshad,
 
You can make this insanely complex or really simple.  I'd want my home to talk only to devices and systems I had authorized it to - so I maintain control. Avoiding complexity on the network end. Using certificates I can authenticate who and what I'm talking to.  That seems simplest, yes?  I can have partner agreements determining what they are allowed to do with information they receive from my system(s).
 
=======================================================
 
David,
 
I'm not aware that electricity comes in flavours!?!  Once it's in the grid - its just power - I cannot request a flavour or colour.  So while you may want to pick the source - you can only direct your $ towards a preferred supplier on a percentage basis.  Currently you see existing schemes like that being marketed to green businesses.   I've never been convinced this is anything more than a feel-good factor!  I like my grain-fed, hormone free electricity?!? 
 
Thanks, DW
 

 

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: [smartgrid-discuss] more thoughts

From: Arshad Noor <arshad.noor@strongauth.com>

Date: Wed, December 10, 2008 9:58 pm

To: smartgrid-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org

As I am somewhat new to this list - and to this sector - I am a

little in the dark about how things are today and how things are

being designed for the future. I trust the forum will be patient

with some of my questions in the short-term.

Since the smart grid forum is discussing potential new standards

for messages, and since so much of our economy is based on the use

of computers and networks, is there an articulation of the security

goals for this bold future (other than "it must be secure") when

its business will be conducted using computers & networks?

I am specifically interested in business-level requirements for

securing messages between players in this industry for:

1) Message Authenticity;

2) Message Integrity; and

3) Data Confidentiality.

I'm not specifically interested in these attributes when messages

are traversing the networks, but when they are in a database of

a 24/7 application on servers, or when they're on a flash-based

EEPROM of some "smart-meter" where the homeowner or business-owner

has pre-configured rules for demand reduction. How will these

"messages" be protected from attack and being compromised at the

source and destination?

Do such requirements exist somewhere, where one can read them and

come upto speed?

Thanks.

Arshad Noor

StrongAuth, Inc.

David Holmberg wrote:

> Some more thoughts on pricing:

>

> We need price communicated like the sticker on a car on the car lot.

> Some standard format for what information should be on the sticker, so

> the consumer can select what they want. So, its not just a price, its

> many variables, and the market needs to allow for the sale of electrcity

> based on a variety of popular options. A utility may market a half dozen

> (or infinite--you pick your flavor) varieties of power options to be

> "green" or "wind" or "low-cost" or whatever. We need a market where the

> customer can say what they want in terms of a few variables and priority

> (price, carbon-content, generator specific, power quality). I mention

> generator specific, because customers may want to buy power from "that

> place", just like you want a product from this vendor or that. We need

> an ID for each generator that gets passed to the customer and allows the

> customer to go get more info (like a website) on a generator.

>

> At the wholesale level there has to be a similar market. The ISO can't

> just take bids based on price now. The ISO has to consider all the same

> factors so as to meet the demands of the popular options. We might have

> cheap coal, but if all the local utilities' customers want is green,

> then I won't dispatch the coal plant. Or in other words, the bids have

> to include a green value.

>

> So, what is the status of a standard for carbon value?

>

> David

>

> David Holmberg

> NIST Building & Fire Research Lab

> Building Environment Division, Mechanical Systems and Controls Group

> 100 Bureau Drive, Bldg. 226, Room B114, MS 8631, Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8631

> TEL: 301/975-6450 FAX: 301/975-8973

>

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David Holmberg
NIST Building & Fire Research Lab
Building Environment Division, Mechanical Systems and Controls Group
100 Bureau Drive, Bldg. 226, Room B114, MS 8631, Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8631
TEL: 301/975-6450   FAX: 301/975-8973