[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: RE: [wsbpel] This telcon process doesn't work!
What about using some teleconference technology such as WebEx? I was
surprised this wasn't included to begin with. Not only could we share
documents but many of these systems have a builtin polling capability.
Michael DeBellis
Fujitsu Consulting
5000 Executive Parkway, Suite 175
San Ramon, CA 94583
VP Content Services
Cell: (415) 297-0572
Home office: (415) 550-8109
Email: Michael.DeBellis@consulting.fujitsu.com
|--------+------------------------->
| | Rand Anderson |
| | <randerson@macg|
| | regor.com> |
| | |
| | 05/16/2003 |
| | 10:59 AM |
| | |
|--------+------------------------->
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org |
| cc: 'Ben Bloch' <ben_b54@hotmail.com>, "Burdett, David" <david.burdett@commerceone.com>, 'Darran Rolls' |
| <Darran.Rolls@waveset.com>, Diane Jordan <drj@us.ibm.com> |
| Subject: RE: [wsbpel] This telcon process doesn't work! |
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Folks,
My initial reaction to today's kickoff:
We ran into some issues (some business but mostly protocol, I think), but
to me, these seem like mostly normal issues for the birth-pains of a new
group with this kind of mission and industry interest. The benefit to
running into these kinds of issues in our kickoff meeting is that we can
solidify some ground rules and practices early in our life that will help
things go more smoothly the rest of the way, before we get to the really
gnarly issues. BTW, thanks to all who spearheaded, attended, and supported
this, but especially to Diane and John for their patient leadership.
Some points of order that I might offer:
A few folks complained about having a conference call meeting conducted
mostly in "listen-only" mode and needing to resort to speaker queues. I
presume they felt that this somehow would constrain or limit (negatively)
the opportunities for contribution and/or interaction.
In fact, if we were to strictly follow Robert's Rules of Order, these
constraints would be barely noticed by anyone participating (with maybe a
minor exception, see my suggested revisions below). [In fact, following
Robert's Rules on a conf call with speaker-queuing is better than following
Robert's Rules in person in at least one way: the fairness of the queuing
is managed for us by the call system; when in person, the sequence of
hand-raising is somewhat subject to the memory of the chair.]
John, I think you mentioned getting a FAQ for Robert's Rules posted to the
BPEL site - this is crucial, and everyone needs to get some basic
familiarity with operating in a group bound by Robert's Rules. They are
intended (and crafted over many years) to help ensure fair and orderly
conduct of decision making by groups.
To be clear, for BPEL conf call TC meetings, I am strongly in favor of
conducting them roughly as was proposed for today's call, with listen-mode
most of the time (to minimize line noise), plus the following guidelines:
- allow folks to get in the speaker queue at any time (this
is simply analogous to raising your hand to be heard at an in-person
meeting)
- ask that the meeting chair simply call on those in the
queue in a FIFO manner, as appropriate to the point at hand
- note that getting into the queue doesn't mean you can speak
at will; you will get your turn as called upon by the chair
- again, participants should think of getting in the speaker
queue simply as equivalent to raising your hand. If you 'drop your
hand' then re-raise it, you first fall out of the queue and then get
back on at the end of the queue. This is fair.
- until we get the hang of it, we maybe need to be a bit more
heavy-handed on enforcing some of the rules of order, e.g., when the
item on the floor is whether or not you object to the current motion,
do not use your moment on the floor to suggest another amendment -
that only creates confusion. There are certain times open for
amendments, etc. Read Robert's Rules to get some understanding of how
this works.
(A geeky thought: Robert's Rules represents a set of very structured rules
for conducting a certain kind of conversation - we should consider it as a
use case - express Robert's Rules in BPEL! ;)
Later, after we get some familiarity and trust with each other, I suspect
we can feel comfortable relaxing some aspects of Robert's Rules, and can
segue into a little less formality. But to start, I strongly recommend that
we follow the book very strictly; this lays the ground rules up front and
no one will feel they are being treated unfairly in any way.
If I had any thought of not attending the face-to-face, those have been
erased. I think that meeting in first-person and getting a chance to know
each other will do wonders for improving our rapport and hopefully comfort
with each other, and we can become efficient at making our way through the
work that lies ahead.
Looking forward,
Rand
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Bloch [mailto:ben_b54@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 1:40 PM
To: Burdett, David; 'Darran Rolls'; Diane Jordan;
wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [wsbpel] This telcon process doesn't work!
It was tough, wasn't it and the polling (or rather the handraising -
polling itself should be doable in this manner) mechanism was
frustrating indeed. If the TC and the chairs feel such a large group
is too large to manage without a "Coordinator" (100 is a lot although
I have seen it managed), we really should look at moving to subgroups
focusing on specific topics - eg charter, legal, technical (the reason
for the TC don't forget), etc - pretty quickly where the issues can
be hashed out in detail. F2F's probably don't happen frequently
enough to deal with all the issues that require unobstructed free form
interaction.
Just my .02.
BB
----- Original Message -----
From: Burdett, David
To: 'Darran Rolls' ; Diane Jordan ; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: [wsbpel] This telcon process doesn't work!
I would also like to strongly support Darren's statement.
So far ...
1. Diane asked if there were any objection - I had one as I had an
alternative suggestion
2. We were asked to press *1 if there was an objection
3. We were later told to cancel the *1 as someone was needed to
second a motion
Net result, it was impossible for me to raise my objection. Therefore
I am being prohibited from making a contribution.
There HAS to be a better way.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Darran Rolls [mailto:Darran.Rolls@waveset.com]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:13 AM
To: Diane Jordan; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Agenda for May 16 WS BPEL TC
Diane
On the basis that I am not permitted to raise comment on the
currently running call I would like to register my opposition to
holding the initial con-call as a "listen only" call. This
seems highly irregular!!!
=========================================================
Darran Rolls http://www.waveset.com
Waveset Technologies Inc drolls@waveset.com
512) 657 8360
=========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Diane Jordan [mailto:drj@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:04 PM
To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [wsbpel] Agenda for May 16 WS BPEL TC
Hello All,
The agenda for the WS BPEL TC conference call on Friday May 16,
7am PDT, is below. As a reminder, dial in information is: US
Toll Free: 888-711-4576, Toll: +1-484-630-9377, Passcode: WS
BPEL Technical Committee, Leader name: Diane Jordan. You will
need both the pass code and leader name to be admitted. Also,
to be admitted to the call, your name needs to be on the TC
roster (which it is if you've received this email from me).
During the call on Friday we will be discussing nominations for
several roles on the Technical committee, including secretary,
webmaster, liaison coordinator, and members of the editing teams
for the specification, issues list and requirements list. One
of the slides below has a few words about each. We will also
need someone at the start of the call to volunteer to take
minutes. Please consider volunteering and feel free to let us
know before the meeting.
We will try to adhere to the times shown in the agenda to get
through the TC start up process. We have a follow on call
planned for Wed. May 21 at 8am PDT that will cover items we do
not complete on Friday, if any, so the way will be clear to
focus on the work plan for the TC at the face to face meeting
May 28-29.
We'll have an operator assisting with the call on Friday. The
operator will take your name when you join for our attendance
tracking. All lines will be in listen mode except the speakers
until Q&A/Discussion times when the operator will moderate a
speakers queue. We're hoping this will help make a call with so
many participants more productive.
We're looking forward to working with you and appreciate your
support.
Regards, Diane
IBM Dynamic e-business Technologies
drj@us.ibm.com
(919)254-7221 or 8-444-7221, Mobile: 919-624-5123
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]